Yesterday noted investigative reporter Seymour Hersh came out with a new substack article. In it, Hersh advances the wildly implausible idea that a peace deal between Russia and Ukraine is being secretly negotiated by the two generals in charge of their respective country’s war efforts: Valery Gerasimov on the Russian side and Valery Zaluzhny on the Ukrainian side:
Yup, old Sy has finally lost me with this one. Had subscribed when he "broke" the Nord Stream story (one that most of us here had already suspected), figuring the rabble-rousing spirit of "afflicting the comfortable" was still alive and well within him. Seeing as his once-countercultural, Lefty cabal is now the establishment, his articles read like a NY/DC old-lady gossip column.
I don't think Hersh's article was any kind of signal to Russia. Russia has said, repeatedly, ad nauseam, that Ukraine will never become a member of NATO, that it will only negotiate a peace treaty with the US Government and it will only sign a treaty ratified by the US Senate. There is absolutely no reason to doubt their position.
Far more likely is that the unidentified senior US government official who Hersh purports to have spoken to is sending a message to the ever-gullible US electorate. The message being: Don't worry. This war will end. See: the generals are talking now so never mind the politicians. This means you can safely vote for Joe (or whoever the Party nominates) because peace is at hand, Russia has been stopped and not a single American soldier has died... and, by the way, Joe has brought the price of gasoline down from $5.00 to $3.50. See what a great President he is?
Never mind that gas was $2.20 when he was elected. Never mind that he is and always has been a grifting, sleazeball influence-peddler who is the greatest embarrassment to the American political system in our lifetimes. The gaslighting of the American voter is just beginning and will reach epic crescendo proportions by November 2024.
As that preeminent political philosopher, realist, and observer of the American Empire, Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin, has frequently noted: If it doesn't make any sense, assume it is for the consumption of the American voter. Or words to that effect.
Cass: It’s sad beyond description to think that there are folks in the US that are this gullible, naive, stupid and just plain ignorant to not see this lame and threadbare bit of flimflammery for what it is, pure undiluted BS.
They're just softening us up for what you've called their bugout. They've got a boat load of mistakes and missteps to erase (think in Orwellian terms) before the election campaigns get under way in earnest. I'll venture Ukraine is 'history' by the Spring of 2024.
FWIW, imagine that Ukraine joins NATO and the Ukrainians then concoct a false flag 'Russian' attack on Ukraine. Say, for example, a government building in Kiev explodes. 200 Ukrainians die. Ukraine 'retaliates' against Russia with a drone attack on Moscow. 200 Russians die. Russia protests that it had nothing to do with the explosion, but it says it must 'retaliate' against Ukraine for the drone attack. What do Ukraine's 31 'allies' in NATO do, especially in light of Article 5?
I think there is 0 chance (as Scott Ritter says) that Ukraine ever (is allowed by Russia to) join NATO.
I believe that's it. Putin will insist that the US own this debacle. He has won the war, the terms of the settlement will be US ownership of the demolition of a nation (albeit with their own complicity). This is necessary to put the US and the Neocon ideology in its geopolitical place.
Right. He will. But that doesn't stop the 'CIA' from telling Hersh to tell the American public that the 'generals' are working out a peace plan. See? We stopped Putin!
Well, I’m still trying to figure out what’s up with Hersh on this one? Does he not recall that the last military operative that went rogue on Putin met with an unfortunate aircraft malfunction? If you just look at how things have played out up to this point, I can’t see how you could possibly accept the idea that two military officers are conducting negotiations on the down low. Just not buying It.
Hmmmnn ... considering "the last military operative that went rogue on Putin": perhaps the Neocons are trying to cast doubt on this General's loyalty to Putin.
I haven't seen a single person yet who's buying it. Everybody gets that this is some sort of ploy, some sort of gaslighting attempt, just a question of what kind. I still favor it as a kind of attempt to get Russia to engage in a proxy negotiation--publicly with Ukraine, but really with US, to save US humiliation and to avoid locking US into any position. US would later claim any deal would not bind US, because US wasn't a party. Russia will insist US be a public party.
These people really believe that this ridiculous ploy has any chance of working? Talk about taking stupidity to another level. With geniuses like this running things, no wonder we’re in this mess. Every day that passes confirms that William F. Buckley Jr. was spot on in suggesting that we have a better chance with the first 300 names in the greater Boston phone book than with “the smartest people in the room”! Geez
I still can’t swallow S.Hershe’s article. I mean, one of the biggest issue why SMO started was that Ukraine will never join NATO. So now Hersh is telling us the Ruskies change their minds?
Maybe I could understand why he wrote the article to instigate/steer some crap - irritate Kyev & The Rake’s regimes.
Anyway, can anyone post a link where we can see that Zaluzhnyi is still alive??? You guys know exactly what I mean.
There must be another reason behind Saymore’s post. I do believe him about the Nord Stream but this last one seams to me 100% wrong.
Mark, I no longer believe we in America have the best government money can buy. Our ancient political class is a used up group of old political prostitutes, they can't demand a premium for their services. DC bears an eerie resemblance to a truck stop parking lot. In a word . . . awful.
For an excellent discussion on the All In podcast of the basis of the war of the elites (as you put it) for the soul of America (as I might put it), see: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pLY1X46H1E&t=5707s.
In particular, the discussion about the likelihood that Gavin Newsome is nominated by the godless tyrants to run for President in 2024 is especially edifying. Some great discussion regarding Musk's efforts on behalf of the 'good elites', as well.
"I think the chat someone had with Seymore was more an internal Dem PR message; sort of a, See citizens, stuff is happening, we've got this! Rather than the US sending signals to Russia, could be wrong."
I've been saying the same thing this morning (see above), without having read your post. Needless to say, I agree.
If you assume that the Deep State ultimately controls the Dems (or the same blob that controls the Deep State controls the Dems) I'm not sure the distinction btw Deep State and Dem messaging is terribly meaningful. Although I acknowledge that Hersh seems to be hooked up to some Deep State source.
But the point is: its all 'messaging' and it ain't the truth!
You mean the crowd that controls Wall Street, Congress, Hollywood, the City of London, the Deep State, Davos, Silicon Valley, MI6, social media, the Israel Lobby, Madison Avenue, the MIC, the Ivy League, and the MSM?
Yup, old Sy has finally lost me with this one. Had subscribed when he "broke" the Nord Stream story (one that most of us here had already suspected), figuring the rabble-rousing spirit of "afflicting the comfortable" was still alive and well within him. Seeing as his once-countercultural, Lefty cabal is now the establishment, his articles read like a NY/DC old-lady gossip column.
OT: Was Henry Kissinger a war criminal?
https://technofog.substack.com/p/kissinger-americas-most-prolific?utm_source=post-email-title&publication_id=274771&post_id=139320017&utm_campaign=email-post-title&isFreemail=false&r=gz4m7&utm_medium=email
If so, what about Bill Clinton, George W. Bush, Barack Obama, and Joe Biden? To name a few.
And then, what about us?
I don't think Hersh's article was any kind of signal to Russia. Russia has said, repeatedly, ad nauseam, that Ukraine will never become a member of NATO, that it will only negotiate a peace treaty with the US Government and it will only sign a treaty ratified by the US Senate. There is absolutely no reason to doubt their position.
Far more likely is that the unidentified senior US government official who Hersh purports to have spoken to is sending a message to the ever-gullible US electorate. The message being: Don't worry. This war will end. See: the generals are talking now so never mind the politicians. This means you can safely vote for Joe (or whoever the Party nominates) because peace is at hand, Russia has been stopped and not a single American soldier has died... and, by the way, Joe has brought the price of gasoline down from $5.00 to $3.50. See what a great President he is?
Never mind that gas was $2.20 when he was elected. Never mind that he is and always has been a grifting, sleazeball influence-peddler who is the greatest embarrassment to the American political system in our lifetimes. The gaslighting of the American voter is just beginning and will reach epic crescendo proportions by November 2024.
As that preeminent political philosopher, realist, and observer of the American Empire, Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin, has frequently noted: If it doesn't make any sense, assume it is for the consumption of the American voter. Or words to that effect.
Cass: It’s sad beyond description to think that there are folks in the US that are this gullible, naive, stupid and just plain ignorant to not see this lame and threadbare bit of flimflammery for what it is, pure undiluted BS.
How many votes did Joe Biden get in 2020?
Talk about 'gullible, naive, stupid and just plain ignorant...'
Thx Cass: As if I wasn’t already depressed enough. :-)
I understand the concept, but it all seems way too early for that. The election is too far ahead for them to shoot their wad at this point.
They're just softening us up for what you've called their bugout. They've got a boat load of mistakes and missteps to erase (think in Orwellian terms) before the election campaigns get under way in earnest. I'll venture Ukraine is 'history' by the Spring of 2024.
This from a Russian (?) perspective:
https://twitter.com/RealScottRitter/status/1731099971917861324
FWIW, imagine that Ukraine joins NATO and the Ukrainians then concoct a false flag 'Russian' attack on Ukraine. Say, for example, a government building in Kiev explodes. 200 Ukrainians die. Ukraine 'retaliates' against Russia with a drone attack on Moscow. 200 Russians die. Russia protests that it had nothing to do with the explosion, but it says it must 'retaliate' against Ukraine for the drone attack. What do Ukraine's 31 'allies' in NATO do, especially in light of Article 5?
I think there is 0 chance (as Scott Ritter says) that Ukraine ever (is allowed by Russia to) join NATO.
I believe that's it. Putin will insist that the US own this debacle. He has won the war, the terms of the settlement will be US ownership of the demolition of a nation (albeit with their own complicity). This is necessary to put the US and the Neocon ideology in its geopolitical place.
Right. He will. But that doesn't stop the 'CIA' from telling Hersh to tell the American public that the 'generals' are working out a peace plan. See? We stopped Putin!
Well, I’m still trying to figure out what’s up with Hersh on this one? Does he not recall that the last military operative that went rogue on Putin met with an unfortunate aircraft malfunction? If you just look at how things have played out up to this point, I can’t see how you could possibly accept the idea that two military officers are conducting negotiations on the down low. Just not buying It.
Hmmmnn ... considering "the last military operative that went rogue on Putin": perhaps the Neocons are trying to cast doubt on this General's loyalty to Putin.
I haven't seen a single person yet who's buying it. Everybody gets that this is some sort of ploy, some sort of gaslighting attempt, just a question of what kind. I still favor it as a kind of attempt to get Russia to engage in a proxy negotiation--publicly with Ukraine, but really with US, to save US humiliation and to avoid locking US into any position. US would later claim any deal would not bind US, because US wasn't a party. Russia will insist US be a public party.
These people really believe that this ridiculous ploy has any chance of working? Talk about taking stupidity to another level. With geniuses like this running things, no wonder we’re in this mess. Every day that passes confirms that William F. Buckley Jr. was spot on in suggesting that we have a better chance with the first 300 names in the greater Boston phone book than with “the smartest people in the room”! Geez
Gents,
I still can’t swallow S.Hershe’s article. I mean, one of the biggest issue why SMO started was that Ukraine will never join NATO. So now Hersh is telling us the Ruskies change their minds?
Maybe I could understand why he wrote the article to instigate/steer some crap - irritate Kyev & The Rake’s regimes.
Anyway, can anyone post a link where we can see that Zaluzhnyi is still alive??? You guys know exactly what I mean.
There must be another reason behind Saymore’s post. I do believe him about the Nord Stream but this last one seams to me 100% wrong.
Mark, I no longer believe we in America have the best government money can buy. Our ancient political class is a used up group of old political prostitutes, they can't demand a premium for their services. DC bears an eerie resemblance to a truck stop parking lot. In a word . . . awful.
“He (Putin) calls or meets with his personal friend Xi Jinping to discuss the future of the post-rules-based order world.
Their future.
And they smile together.”
https://www.skynews.com.au/insights-and-analysis/what-a-difference-a-year-makes-once-isolated-distrustful-vladimir-putin-is-intimidating-the-west-as-he-plans-big-ahead-of-2024-russian-election/news-story/0aab3de4a33d0962a040cd4a48e62162
LOL. How many times have I said this in the last few weeks?
his “self-confidence was hard to miss”
Some funny stuff. Corn Pop was a bad dude.
For an excellent discussion on the All In podcast of the basis of the war of the elites (as you put it) for the soul of America (as I might put it), see: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pLY1X46H1E&t=5707s.
In particular, the discussion about the likelihood that Gavin Newsome is nominated by the godless tyrants to run for President in 2024 is especially edifying. Some great discussion regarding Musk's efforts on behalf of the 'good elites', as well.
@Frances
"I think the chat someone had with Seymore was more an internal Dem PR message; sort of a, See citizens, stuff is happening, we've got this! Rather than the US sending signals to Russia, could be wrong."
I've been saying the same thing this morning (see above), without having read your post. Needless to say, I agree.
I question whether Hersh does "internal Dem" messaging. I think he does internal Deep State messaging.
If you assume that the Deep State ultimately controls the Dems (or the same blob that controls the Deep State controls the Dems) I'm not sure the distinction btw Deep State and Dem messaging is terribly meaningful. Although I acknowledge that Hersh seems to be hooked up to some Deep State source.
But the point is: its all 'messaging' and it ain't the truth!
the point is: its all 'messaging' and it ain't the truth!
You mean the crowd that controls Wall Street, Congress, Hollywood, the City of London, the Deep State, Davos, Silicon Valley, MI6, social media, the Israel Lobby, Madison Avenue, the MIC, the Ivy League, and the MSM?
That crowd?
https://twitter.com/FiorellaIsabelM/status/1731283111236063335