Over the past week there have been some rumors of peace. It may be worth our while to try sorting these out. The first one turned up in the NYT, under the wildly implausible heading: Putin Quietly Signals He Is Open to a Cease-Fire in Ukraine Despite its bravado in public, the Kremlin has indicated its interest in striking a deal to halt the war — so long as it could still declare victory.
Also propaganda is used to convince our side which is really more important when domestic power is considered. After all of MSM said we didn't lose any wars (they'll "fact check" that no no wars were lost) many people will still believe the MSM (don't ask me why)
I think both your theories have merit Mark. Clearly whatever was being discussed needed to be done very privately and securely at the highest levels (in person) and was never going to be for public consumption.
It’s amazing! The nyt isn’t bothered in the least by Zelensky’s total rejection of negotiations w Russia (even after allowing, finally, that the Ukrainian offensive was a bust and that Western/Nato support is flagging). Never mind! We’re just gonna float the idea that Putin is tired of war and is “quietly” sending signals that he wants to talk. Of course all the public statements P has recently made suggest, as Mark has shown, just the opposite! Just another “thrashing about” of the “ungainly leviathan” (Simplicius), trying underhandedly to make straight the path for Zhou as he slouches towards 11/24. If that was indeed the Russians reading the riot act to Blinken and friends, well, I guess you could say our goose is cooked - not news the Times thinks is fit to print.
I heard recently that the Deep State is wanting a color revolution in Indonesia. These international criminals have a finger in every pot in the world, always looking for more money and power
"The tragicomedy must be in its final act. Earlier this week, a plane from Russia’s Presidential fleet made a secret stop at Dulles Airport that got noticed on a flight tracker website, and stayed for two days. We can’t know for sure what they were doing, but one thinks of Henry Kissinger’s famed airplane meeting in Indonesia where he approved of the East Timor Genocide [on that note, goodbye Henry.] We should assume that the time has finally come to stab Ukraine, or at least Zelensky, in the back."
I think either of your scenarios is viable, Mark. But at the end of the day it is hard to argue against the above proposition, whatever the details of the agreement - and it does seems obvious there is some sort of agreement being negotiated either explicitly or implicitly (tacitly). Any details of any such agreement will never see the light of mainstream media day. So we will be left to speculate over the methods and reasons for the continuing carnage.
The confusing optics are puzzling. No way I see Putin trying to “cut a deal” when he’s holding four aces. I might lean a little toward a face to face warning to these idiots in DC, but Putin would be aware of the optics as well, so hard to see him taking this route. As I said, puzzling. Not so puzzling is the NYT drivel, more neocon backed gaslighting.
In spite of everything going on, I hope everyone had a Merry Christmas!
Those dimwits over at the NYT think JFK is President, it’s the Cuban Missle Crisis, that they still have credibility and that anyone with one functioning brain cell believes anything that they print. Neocons and their shills all live in a fantasy world and expect everyone else to just follow along. Laughable and pathetic at the same time.
I think the NYT is "preparing the ground" among the American "cognoscenti" for what would otherwise be a humiliating loss of face for NATO and the West. Putin will be happy if he can get what he wants regardless of how it is portrayed in the western press. The western press will for its part try to minimize the defeat and preferably try to bury it altogether through one means or another - even to the point of ignoring it.
And another fact, is the F-16 needs a runway with no debris on it. Unfortunately those no longer exist in Ukraine. Air intake is in bottom, unlike Russian designs.
So now that we are broke, and can print no more, we start confiscating other country’s assets and funds. Yeah, that’ll end well. America acts as is the rest of the world are as easy to bully and push around as its own inhabitants. They act as if the other party doesn’t have a say or options. Stoopid arrogant americans
This could also be connected to the rumblings about cutting off Kaliningrad, or declaring some type of exclusion zone in the Baltic Sea between Finland, Sweden, and some other useful idiots to bottle up Russian Shipping. Russia's response to a blockade of Kaliningrad may be to build a land bridge through Lithuania.
Sundance's theory is as a way to detour stupidity by the West, by Russia showing it knows the West is the aggressor.
Yeah, a blockade of Kaliningrad would be totally nuts. I have no doubt that there are nukes in Kaliningrad. The missiles are there that can reach most of Poland and Germany.
The NYT headline is the usual pure projection from the neocons. If you substitute "White House" for "Kremlin" you'll understand what is really happening. As for the stalled jet, I doubt that the Russians would bother flying all the way to the US to tell Biden their new strategic moves: Putin would simply announce them on Russian TV, or they would just do them. Maybe it is about the bigger picture: trying to get it into the wooden heads of the neocons that they are risking WW3.
I did wonder about that. I believe he was in Morocco. However, if this was basically a military to military matter, then someone other than Lavrov would certainly do.
Also propaganda is used to convince our side which is really more important when domestic power is considered. After all of MSM said we didn't lose any wars (they'll "fact check" that no no wars were lost) many people will still believe the MSM (don't ask me why)
I think both your theories have merit Mark. Clearly whatever was being discussed needed to be done very privately and securely at the highest levels (in person) and was never going to be for public consumption.
It’s amazing! The nyt isn’t bothered in the least by Zelensky’s total rejection of negotiations w Russia (even after allowing, finally, that the Ukrainian offensive was a bust and that Western/Nato support is flagging). Never mind! We’re just gonna float the idea that Putin is tired of war and is “quietly” sending signals that he wants to talk. Of course all the public statements P has recently made suggest, as Mark has shown, just the opposite! Just another “thrashing about” of the “ungainly leviathan” (Simplicius), trying underhandedly to make straight the path for Zhou as he slouches towards 11/24. If that was indeed the Russians reading the riot act to Blinken and friends, well, I guess you could say our goose is cooked - not news the Times thinks is fit to print.
And an attempted color revolution in Serbia:
https://twitter.com/dana916/status/1739115208071606578
I heard recently that the Deep State is wanting a color revolution in Indonesia. These international criminals have a finger in every pot in the world, always looking for more money and power
The last time we did that there were about a million dead:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indonesian_mass_killings_of_1965%E2%80%9366
Thanks for the link. I believe Putin had warned the Serbs this was coming, maybe a couple of weeks ago. The Brits had increased activity in the area.
"The tragicomedy must be in its final act. Earlier this week, a plane from Russia’s Presidential fleet made a secret stop at Dulles Airport that got noticed on a flight tracker website, and stayed for two days. We can’t know for sure what they were doing, but one thinks of Henry Kissinger’s famed airplane meeting in Indonesia where he approved of the East Timor Genocide [on that note, goodbye Henry.] We should assume that the time has finally come to stab Ukraine, or at least Zelensky, in the back."
https://www.thewaywardrabbler.com/p/my-airing-of-grievances?publication_id=744143&post_id=140026386&isFreemail=true&r=rjj5o
I think either of your scenarios is viable, Mark. But at the end of the day it is hard to argue against the above proposition, whatever the details of the agreement - and it does seems obvious there is some sort of agreement being negotiated either explicitly or implicitly (tacitly). Any details of any such agreement will never see the light of mainstream media day. So we will be left to speculate over the methods and reasons for the continuing carnage.
Seems both scenarios could be true.
The confusing optics are puzzling. No way I see Putin trying to “cut a deal” when he’s holding four aces. I might lean a little toward a face to face warning to these idiots in DC, but Putin would be aware of the optics as well, so hard to see him taking this route. As I said, puzzling. Not so puzzling is the NYT drivel, more neocon backed gaslighting.
In spite of everything going on, I hope everyone had a Merry Christmas!
Yep. The intel community funnel to the Times is alive and well.
Those dimwits over at the NYT think JFK is President, it’s the Cuban Missle Crisis, that they still have credibility and that anyone with one functioning brain cell believes anything that they print. Neocons and their shills all live in a fantasy world and expect everyone else to just follow along. Laughable and pathetic at the same time.
I think the NYT is "preparing the ground" among the American "cognoscenti" for what would otherwise be a humiliating loss of face for NATO and the West. Putin will be happy if he can get what he wants regardless of how it is portrayed in the western press. The western press will for its part try to minimize the defeat and preferably try to bury it altogether through one means or another - even to the point of ignoring it.
Only a supplicant would fly to Washington. Russia is not a supplicant. If it has happened its something else.
Even if Russia is issuing ultimata, it would not fly to Washington for the purpose.
It may have been an opportunity for Russia to deliver a message to the U.S. they felt has been ignored.
And the U.S. thought it was an opportunity to talk of a ceasefire, allowing Ukraine re-arm.
With the 2024 election calendar and Biden’s polling, I’m sure the Democrats are desperate.
I'm not sure I agree with that.
They might fly there to deliver a tough message face to face.
Support on the F-16 hypothesis:
https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-awaits-f-16s-kyiv-russia/32744692.html
And another fact, is the F-16 needs a runway with no debris on it. Unfortunately those no longer exist in Ukraine. Air intake is in bottom, unlike Russian designs.
This ISW group of kooks.
Good point. The Russians are well aware of that, which is probably why they issued that warning.
Another Alternative:
Words on seized Russian Assets seems to have heated up recently:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/dec/22/russia-europe-us-ukraine-seized-assets
True, but I don't think that would require a flight like this one. That could be handled by secure communications.
So now that we are broke, and can print no more, we start confiscating other country’s assets and funds. Yeah, that’ll end well. America acts as is the rest of the world are as easy to bully and push around as its own inhabitants. They act as if the other party doesn’t have a say or options. Stoopid arrogant americans
Belarus now has Russian Nukes on it's territory.
This could also be connected to the rumblings about cutting off Kaliningrad, or declaring some type of exclusion zone in the Baltic Sea between Finland, Sweden, and some other useful idiots to bottle up Russian Shipping. Russia's response to a blockade of Kaliningrad may be to build a land bridge through Lithuania.
Sundance's theory is as a way to detour stupidity by the West, by Russia showing it knows the West is the aggressor.
https://theconservativetreehouse.com/blog/2023/12/25/president-alexander-lukashenko-states-russian-tactical-nuclear-weapons-now-staged-in-belarus/
Yeah, a blockade of Kaliningrad would be totally nuts. I have no doubt that there are nukes in Kaliningrad. The missiles are there that can reach most of Poland and Germany.
I like this one from Sundance, “Russia, Iran, China, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, et al, are not pretending.”
The NYT headline is the usual pure projection from the neocons. If you substitute "White House" for "Kremlin" you'll understand what is really happening. As for the stalled jet, I doubt that the Russians would bother flying all the way to the US to tell Biden their new strategic moves: Putin would simply announce them on Russian TV, or they would just do them. Maybe it is about the bigger picture: trying to get it into the wooden heads of the neocons that they are risking WW3.
Merry Christmas Mark and all commentors!
I like your two speculative theories about what the plane and its occupants might have been here for.
My question is who and what level diplomat would Russia have sent? Lavrov was elsewhere during this time?
I did wonder about that. I believe he was in Morocco. However, if this was basically a military to military matter, then someone other than Lavrov would certainly do.
The Kremlin janitor is about all they deserve.