This entire essay leaves out any mention of "Kill the Jews" that is taught daily in the Palestinian Schools., these are Jordanians for the most part. I didn't notice mention of exiting Gaza in the hope of facilitating peace, they got more war but that is my American misconception, what the hell do I know.........
"I didn't notice mention of exiting Gaza in the hope of facilitating peace, they got more war"
That means you didn't read the Dennis Ross interview which directly addressed that issue and the mistake that Ross believes empowered Hamas. Read my just published post and tell me what you make of the Haredi movement's responsibility. I don't defend the actions of Hamas, but I don't defend provoking violence when the result of provocation is 100% predictable. Let me know.
Agreed. My sentiment exactly. Same for US. Even though as we know in the WSJ it reported Hamas/Hezbollah both mentioned Iran's role in prep and support. Could be propaganda to escalate.
"We put Palestinians in cages and killed them. One of us raped a sixteen-year-old girl; some of us ran after them with flame throwers and burned them."
[video]
"We put Palestinians in cages and killed them. One of us raped a sixteen-year-old girl; some of us ran after them with flame throwers and burned them."
It's no more my job to provide all examples of Jewish brutality than it is to present examples of Arab brutality. The reality is there--on both sides. I've read on this for years, but haven't built any sort of archive. It's not my primary focus. But all you need to do is look at the number of Palestinian refugees to know that the Zionist goal was to force Arabs out. It only took a few such incidents of hundreds killed to get tens of thousands to flee.
Obviously you've drunk the Zionist koolaid--that's the narrative you've been consistently parroting, while ignoring all contrary facts and refusing to address Palestinian rights. The State of Israel was established by a Western dominated UN and against the wishes of the Arab population of Palestine as well as the regional states of the ME. Your Zionist narrative is that the Arabs voluntarily abandoned their homes and possessions and left Israel. The well documented history of mostly Jewish perpetrated massacres--to which you refuse to respond--is a strong indication that the Arabs largely fled their homes out of fear. Human nature suggests that very few people flee their homes and abandon their possessions except out of fear.
"They never were able to return"
Israel has refused to allow any Palestinians to return, while flooding the country with Jews from around the world and expanding illegally into Palestinian areas, expropriating land and squeezing Palestinians into ever smaller areas.
Your mention of Yassir Arafat brought back a memory: He and Washington were an inch away from inking a peace deal when he suddenly scotched the whole shebang. The cynical pundits opined that it was because of the money--continuing strife means money in one's pocket. Only chumps desire peace.
Seems to me Israel providing high tech weaponry and surveillance to Azerbaijan is what kicked this off. Diminishing Iran’s strategic position and propping up the Neocon’s pan Turkic anti Russian bulwark.
Israel meddled in Iran’s backyard and now Iran is playing tit for tat. Except that is what the Neocons wanted all along. Iran got suckered.
Leaving the border unattended was the icing on the cake.
People forget Iran has millions of Azeris north of the border and in the Turkic world nationalism trumps sectarianism.
I guess I have a bad attitude re. the Middle East Madhouse, to wit: I don't care when my own nation is being INVADED by millions of young males with bad intentions. I also can't really be too concerned with Israel - Palestinian relations when the DC behemoth treats anyone who does not enthusiastically embrace today's woke idiocy as a 'terrorist' or 'national security threat' . . .
If this is a reference to the Dennis Ross interview, I recommend reading the full interview. It is in no way an apology for Hamas but deals with events from the standpoint of a career diplomat and negotiator who is deeply committed to Israel. Thus you get the perspective of a person with that background, not that of an organizational psychologist. I don't agree with all of Ross' perspective but find value in it, which is why I also include the transcript of Mercouris' differing perspective--which nevertheless has some commonalities.,
You appear to be arguing that two wrongs make a right, somehow. I am not an apologist for Islam--anyone who has followed my writing knows that. I'm fully cognizant of those issues. By the same token, if you've read the Israelite scriptures you will know that the same dehumanizing attitudes are applied to non-Jews. That doesn't mean I believe all Jews buy into those narratives, but it does mean confronting, understanding, and dealing with that reality. These attitudes are simply extreme examples of very common attitudes throughout human history harking back to the religion of "archaic man" as defined by Mircea Eliade. Another prime example would have to do with the behavior of the Japanese during WW2, but war atrocities are generally part of war. I'm not arguing the obvious wrongs, I'm looking for the origins to understand remedies.
All I’m noting is Hamas are acting as barbarians with rape, beheading, kidnapping, etc. Isis acted similarly, with the addition of slavery.
The Muslim Brotherhood has a method of brainwashing recruits that results in ideological purity. Similar to what you see in cults. Enemies have been dehumanized, just like happened with the WW2 Nazis to Jews, Slavs, gypsies, handicapped, communists and other enemies of the state resulting in mass killings / genocide.
Japanese WW2 ideology resulted in seeing pow’s and Chinese as sub human resulting in Nanking massacre, biological warfare testing, etc.
I have not stated what I think Israel should do, but have noted their draconian gun control and internal color revolution issues.
Historically the Palestinians have been discriminated against in the Arab World and not allowed to assimilate. We are on the third or fourth generation of refugees. They have been used as a political football.
I blame a lot of the rise of hard core Islam across the world on bad decisions by various governments, and huge funding from the gulf states including KSA to gain control of mosques and madrasses worldwide to push their vision of Islam. And it’s not just Hamas, but other Islamist’s world wide from Pakistan to Syria to Nigeria.
I note the double standard on how Christians are persecuted worldwide by Muslims is ignored. The Koran has an amazing ability to not allow followers to convert or for a Muslim enlightenment. If you stray to far you are declared an apostate, and can be killed.
The root of the issue is the version of Islam being pushed by Hamas and allies is an expansionist one, that views the Jews as colonists that can be expelled. As well as taking land that was historically Muslim.
In Jewish scriptures and what they justify, I’ll stay away from that tar baby. I do read unz from time to time, as well as voxday.
Added - And I’m familiar with the USS Liberty.
And the fact initially it seems Israel helped Hamas as a counter weight to the PLO.
"I note the double standard on how Christians are persecuted worldwide by Muslims is ignored."
But you don't note the persecution of Christians in Israel?
"The root of the issue is the version of Islam being pushed by Hamas and allies is an expansionist one, that views the Jews as colonists"
You're saying that's an inaccurate view? Jews also use the term "settlers", which conjures up images of wagon trains crossing the plains of the Old West. Is not that vision of illegal "settlers" increasingly occupying the West Bank an "expansionist" and "colonial" vision?
You claim to avoid the "tar baby" of religion--which happens to be at the very heart of all this, but I'm not convinced. That seems to mean that you simply prefer to leave certain issues unaddressed.
I question comparing Christian discrimination in Israel, compared to most Muslim countries. Basically Muslim countries have done religious cleansing. Where non Muslims are forced to leave.
Jews were also thrown out of most Muslim countries in 49, yet somehow they have been assimilated in Israel.
The tar baby I mentioned is because I don’t feel safe discussing certain topics online.
On Settlers, I wish Arafat had taken the Clinton deal with some creative land land swaps. From what I can tell, it’s a huge mess. And not all settler areas are created equal. It’s not an area I know much about.
And all I'm saying is that Zionism exhibits similar characteristics--there are two sides to this story. That's why events like these in 1948 could take place. Why are you denying these events, the USS Liberty event, and similar matters? If you don't know about them, ask yourself, why? Hard core Islam, hard core Zionism? BTW, I don't read Unz.
Be sure to watch the brief video interview of two former Israeli soldiers on Israeli TV:
"We put Palestinians in cages and killed them. One of us raped a sixteen-year-old girl; some of us ran after them with flame throwers and burned them."
[video]
"We put Palestinians in cages and killed them. One of us raped a sixteen-year-old girl; some of us ran after them with flame throwers and burned them."
I just added the bit on the uss liberty before I read your reply. As well as Israel helping Hamas form.
Unz has alternate viewpoints that can be useful. It’s a mixed bag.
My view on Israel’s government is they are very self centered, and are very happy to use the US for its own purpose. We can be a useful idiot. Uss liberty is a great example of that. Or the huge spying by Israel in the US. Or selling of U.S. defense technology to China.
I’m not sure if the dancing Israelis is true as mentioned on Unz, but I would not be surprised. The fbi coverup gives it credence.
I don’t understand why the Democratic Party sees the Muslim Brotherhood, and affiliated organizations as useful partners.
I stay away from studying ideology, it does not interest me much. So I have not read up on Zionism.
Gee, massive intelligence failure. Where have we heard that before: weren’t those Ruskies supposed to fold up shop on the strength of our mighty sanctions, etc etc.
Those theories hold more weight than mainstream propaganda which is being gushed out. It's inconceivable that Israel's state security apparatus (the best) failed to pick up on such an attack. It's ludicrous. They own the airspace, the border (heavily surveilled), own/sell security software to state security agencies around the world, as well extensively monitor social media and other venues of social congregation, actively manipulate with narratives/ as well as subvert and co-opt. It defies rational belief we are expected to believe they got caught with their pants down.
What conclusion do we draw here? Psyops are thing and govts will use the deaths of their own people for problem, reaction, solution purposes. This thing stinks to high heaven.
I can agree with much of that. I can see Israeli Humint being fooled, but it does seem hard to believe that prepping for this attack couldn't have been seen. OTOH, it's a known phenomenon that true believers in an intel narrative can overrule hard evidence. Overall, I don't see the cui bono to theories that this was all planned out by Israel somehow.
I'm an internet random, 'the chatter', I'm not required to dot the i's and cross the t's to support my opinions in published pieces. I have zero evidence to support my questioning of the narratives. But what I do have, is exposure of the rotten belly of our collective establishments, that they no longer operate to expected norms, to which a degree of trust could be conferred upon them. That's gone.
I do not believe Israeli intelligence was blindsided. I don't know what we are seeing here (I look to various sources including yours for sentiments/analysis), but them failing to pick up a coordinated assault, with all the logistics, secrecy and planning involved? No way man.
What of Hamas? Why wouldn't they be subverted by Israeli intelligence? How sophisticated can they be? vs Mossad? Is Hamas capable of doing anything serious other than exist to play the role of an existential threat to Israel, thus justifying the array of military and intelligence might at Israel's disposal? A populace in a state of constant threat of war or instability is vulnerable to measures and bills, that erode their rights and freedoms.
I don't believe in official narratives. There's lots f
The USS Liberty incident is well documented. Spend some time reading up on it. In the meantime, read my latest comment on this thread. I have read elsewhere accounts by Israeli soldiers of similar incidents, before the advent of internet and smart phones etc.
While there's truth in some of that, it's also terribly simplistic--deliberately so, and deliberately lumps events together without context. The answer to Islam is not to attempt to colonize a small corner of it while perpetrating injustices upon its inhabitants. Moreover it is not at all clear to me that Israel is truly part of the West. In fairness, Greenfield doesn't suggest that. But Greenfield's "the world" is composed of parts with very different interests and values. Japan, China, India, Africa, what used to be the West.
While there's no doubt that various parties benefit in various ways from these sad events, I side with Mercouris in saying that the basic decision was up to Hamas--even though I'm quite sure they had assistance. Any political benefit to Israel will be, IMO, relatively short term, so I don't think the motive is there. This is definitely not a benefit for US geopolitics as far as I can see. US taxpayers will not be guilt tripped re Ukraine--they'll be too angry at US politicians.
was watching FoxNews segment last night where Gowdy interviewed a former Natl Security person where she was convinced it was Iran's intent to destroy the negotiations between Israel and Saudia Arabia. Seems to be the pervasive thinking among the DC elites versus our / Mercouris perspective.
I think Mercouris is correct--that's most likely a propaganda narrative. KSA normalizing with Israel was not going to change it's joining BRICS or normalizing with Iran. OTOH, KSA has been looking for more weaponry from the US.
Mandatory Palestine was a geopolitical entity established between 1920 and 1948 in the region of Palestine under the terms of the League of Nations Mandate for Palestine.
British censuses and estimations
In 1920, the majority of the approximately 750,000 people in this multi-ethnic region were Arabic-speaking Muslims, ... as well as Jews (who accounted for some 11% of the total) ....
The first census of 1922 showed a population of 757,182, of whom 78% were Muslim, 11% Jewish and 10% Christian.
The second census, of 1931, gave a total population of 1,035,154 of whom 73.4% were Muslim, 16.9% Jewish and 8.6% Christian.
I'd qualify that slightly, Lem. Land is OCCUPIED by the strongest. Whether it BELONGS to them in the ethical and legal sense is more debatable. Again, coming back to the personal example, if I take your land and occupy with all my armed family members, would you agree that it belongs to me? Sure, there are the "facts on the ground" - if you want your land back you have to turf me out. However, I doubt you'd agree that your land now "belongs" to me.
In general, I personally believe Wikipedia “facts”, especially on political subject matter, are to be taken with a very healthy dose of skepticism. It leans to the left, and aligns itself with the Regime’s narrative at all times. It may be right in this instance, but I’d need more verification. In this case I do think there were indigenous people who were displaced at the time of the creation of Israel, but doubt they identified themselves with a nation called “Palestine.” And I think the fires have been stoked by anti-Israel State outsiders ever since that time.
This entire essay leaves out any mention of "Kill the Jews" that is taught daily in the Palestinian Schools., these are Jordanians for the most part. I didn't notice mention of exiting Gaza in the hope of facilitating peace, they got more war but that is my American misconception, what the hell do I know.........
"I didn't notice mention of exiting Gaza in the hope of facilitating peace, they got more war"
That means you didn't read the Dennis Ross interview which directly addressed that issue and the mistake that Ross believes empowered Hamas. Read my just published post and tell me what you make of the Haredi movement's responsibility. I don't defend the actions of Hamas, but I don't defend provoking violence when the result of provocation is 100% predictable. Let me know.
Thank you, Mark.
Yossi Melman @yossi_melman - 5:33 UTC · Oct 9, 2023
IDF spokeperson Brig-General Danny Hagari said that there is no indication of an Iranian involvement in the war in Gaza.
Of course, the tough part is the meaning of the word "involvement"
Agreed. My sentiment exactly. Same for US. Even though as we know in the WSJ it reported Hamas/Hezbollah both mentioned Iran's role in prep and support. Could be propaganda to escalate.
https://twitter.com/incontextmedia/status/1600493875746963457
In Context
@incontextmedia
Zionist soldier, while laughing in an Interview with the Israeli channel Hot 8 [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hot_(Israel)]:
"We put Palestinians in cages and killed them. One of us raped a sixteen-year-old girl; some of us ran after them with flame throwers and burned them."
[video]
"We put Palestinians in cages and killed them. One of us raped a sixteen-year-old girl; some of us ran after them with flame throwers and burned them."
It's no more my job to provide all examples of Jewish brutality than it is to present examples of Arab brutality. The reality is there--on both sides. I've read on this for years, but haven't built any sort of archive. It's not my primary focus. But all you need to do is look at the number of Palestinian refugees to know that the Zionist goal was to force Arabs out. It only took a few such incidents of hundreds killed to get tens of thousands to flee.
Obviously you've drunk the Zionist koolaid--that's the narrative you've been consistently parroting, while ignoring all contrary facts and refusing to address Palestinian rights. The State of Israel was established by a Western dominated UN and against the wishes of the Arab population of Palestine as well as the regional states of the ME. Your Zionist narrative is that the Arabs voluntarily abandoned their homes and possessions and left Israel. The well documented history of mostly Jewish perpetrated massacres--to which you refuse to respond--is a strong indication that the Arabs largely fled their homes out of fear. Human nature suggests that very few people flee their homes and abandon their possessions except out of fear.
"They never were able to return"
Israel has refused to allow any Palestinians to return, while flooding the country with Jews from around the world and expanding illegally into Palestinian areas, expropriating land and squeezing Palestinians into ever smaller areas.
Good summary of where we are for those of use with working memory deficits!
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/korybko-top-10-takeaways-hamas-sneak-attack-israel
Great input as ever from Mercouris.
Your mention of Yassir Arafat brought back a memory: He and Washington were an inch away from inking a peace deal when he suddenly scotched the whole shebang. The cynical pundits opined that it was because of the money--continuing strife means money in one's pocket. Only chumps desire peace.
Seems to me Israel providing high tech weaponry and surveillance to Azerbaijan is what kicked this off. Diminishing Iran’s strategic position and propping up the Neocon’s pan Turkic anti Russian bulwark.
Israel meddled in Iran’s backyard and now Iran is playing tit for tat. Except that is what the Neocons wanted all along. Iran got suckered.
Leaving the border unattended was the icing on the cake.
People forget Iran has millions of Azeris north of the border and in the Turkic world nationalism trumps sectarianism.
I guess I have a bad attitude re. the Middle East Madhouse, to wit: I don't care when my own nation is being INVADED by millions of young males with bad intentions. I also can't really be too concerned with Israel - Palestinian relations when the DC behemoth treats anyone who does not enthusiastically embrace today's woke idiocy as a 'terrorist' or 'national security threat' . . .
Good point.
The article ignores the internal brainwashing of Hamas that guarantee ideological conformity / purity.
agreed. that is the underlying component driving this.
Now why would Politico neglect to mention that?!
If this is a reference to the Dennis Ross interview, I recommend reading the full interview. It is in no way an apology for Hamas but deals with events from the standpoint of a career diplomat and negotiator who is deeply committed to Israel. Thus you get the perspective of a person with that background, not that of an organizational psychologist. I don't agree with all of Ross' perspective but find value in it, which is why I also include the transcript of Mercouris' differing perspective--which nevertheless has some commonalities.,
True. Long standing conflicts tend to generate these kinds of mindsets.
Rape, beheadings, kidnapping grandmothers, etc.
They have been made to believe non Islamist, especially Jewish, are sub human:
https://legalinsurrection.com/2023/10/wjs-iran-planned-and-ordered-hamas-attack-on-israel-as-more-details-of-brutality-emerge-updates/
You appear to be arguing that two wrongs make a right, somehow. I am not an apologist for Islam--anyone who has followed my writing knows that. I'm fully cognizant of those issues. By the same token, if you've read the Israelite scriptures you will know that the same dehumanizing attitudes are applied to non-Jews. That doesn't mean I believe all Jews buy into those narratives, but it does mean confronting, understanding, and dealing with that reality. These attitudes are simply extreme examples of very common attitudes throughout human history harking back to the religion of "archaic man" as defined by Mircea Eliade. Another prime example would have to do with the behavior of the Japanese during WW2, but war atrocities are generally part of war. I'm not arguing the obvious wrongs, I'm looking for the origins to understand remedies.
All I’m noting is Hamas are acting as barbarians with rape, beheading, kidnapping, etc. Isis acted similarly, with the addition of slavery.
The Muslim Brotherhood has a method of brainwashing recruits that results in ideological purity. Similar to what you see in cults. Enemies have been dehumanized, just like happened with the WW2 Nazis to Jews, Slavs, gypsies, handicapped, communists and other enemies of the state resulting in mass killings / genocide.
Japanese WW2 ideology resulted in seeing pow’s and Chinese as sub human resulting in Nanking massacre, biological warfare testing, etc.
I have not stated what I think Israel should do, but have noted their draconian gun control and internal color revolution issues.
Historically the Palestinians have been discriminated against in the Arab World and not allowed to assimilate. We are on the third or fourth generation of refugees. They have been used as a political football.
I blame a lot of the rise of hard core Islam across the world on bad decisions by various governments, and huge funding from the gulf states including KSA to gain control of mosques and madrasses worldwide to push their vision of Islam. And it’s not just Hamas, but other Islamist’s world wide from Pakistan to Syria to Nigeria.
I note the double standard on how Christians are persecuted worldwide by Muslims is ignored. The Koran has an amazing ability to not allow followers to convert or for a Muslim enlightenment. If you stray to far you are declared an apostate, and can be killed.
The root of the issue is the version of Islam being pushed by Hamas and allies is an expansionist one, that views the Jews as colonists that can be expelled. As well as taking land that was historically Muslim.
In Jewish scriptures and what they justify, I’ll stay away from that tar baby. I do read unz from time to time, as well as voxday.
Added - And I’m familiar with the USS Liberty.
And the fact initially it seems Israel helped Hamas as a counter weight to the PLO.
"I note the double standard on how Christians are persecuted worldwide by Muslims is ignored."
But you don't note the persecution of Christians in Israel?
"The root of the issue is the version of Islam being pushed by Hamas and allies is an expansionist one, that views the Jews as colonists"
You're saying that's an inaccurate view? Jews also use the term "settlers", which conjures up images of wagon trains crossing the plains of the Old West. Is not that vision of illegal "settlers" increasingly occupying the West Bank an "expansionist" and "colonial" vision?
You claim to avoid the "tar baby" of religion--which happens to be at the very heart of all this, but I'm not convinced. That seems to mean that you simply prefer to leave certain issues unaddressed.
I question comparing Christian discrimination in Israel, compared to most Muslim countries. Basically Muslim countries have done religious cleansing. Where non Muslims are forced to leave.
Jews were also thrown out of most Muslim countries in 49, yet somehow they have been assimilated in Israel.
The tar baby I mentioned is because I don’t feel safe discussing certain topics online.
On Settlers, I wish Arafat had taken the Clinton deal with some creative land land swaps. From what I can tell, it’s a huge mess. And not all settler areas are created equal. It’s not an area I know much about.
And all I'm saying is that Zionism exhibits similar characteristics--there are two sides to this story. That's why events like these in 1948 could take place. Why are you denying these events, the USS Liberty event, and similar matters? If you don't know about them, ask yourself, why? Hard core Islam, hard core Zionism? BTW, I don't read Unz.
Be sure to watch the brief video interview of two former Israeli soldiers on Israeli TV:
https://twitter.com/incontextmedia/status/1600493875746963457
In Context
@incontextmedia
Zionist soldier, while laughing in an Interview with the Israeli channel Hot 8 [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hot_(Israel)]:
"We put Palestinians in cages and killed them. One of us raped a sixteen-year-old girl; some of us ran after them with flame throwers and burned them."
[video]
"We put Palestinians in cages and killed them. One of us raped a sixteen-year-old girl; some of us ran after them with flame throwers and burned them."
Video is of the Tantura massacre that happened in 1948.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killings_and_massacres_during_the_1948_Palestine_war
Mark
I just added the bit on the uss liberty before I read your reply. As well as Israel helping Hamas form.
Unz has alternate viewpoints that can be useful. It’s a mixed bag.
My view on Israel’s government is they are very self centered, and are very happy to use the US for its own purpose. We can be a useful idiot. Uss liberty is a great example of that. Or the huge spying by Israel in the US. Or selling of U.S. defense technology to China.
I’m not sure if the dancing Israelis is true as mentioned on Unz, but I would not be surprised. The fbi coverup gives it credence.
I don’t understand why the Democratic Party sees the Muslim Brotherhood, and affiliated organizations as useful partners.
I stay away from studying ideology, it does not interest me much. So I have not read up on Zionism.
Ray
I can't understand why the IDF, with all its resources, got caught so badly with its pants down.
Gee, massive intelligence failure. Where have we heard that before: weren’t those Ruskies supposed to fold up shop on the strength of our mighty sanctions, etc etc.
IDF, Mossad, the whole state apparatus. It's amazing. No wonder conspiracy theories are mushrooming these days.
Those theories hold more weight than mainstream propaganda which is being gushed out. It's inconceivable that Israel's state security apparatus (the best) failed to pick up on such an attack. It's ludicrous. They own the airspace, the border (heavily surveilled), own/sell security software to state security agencies around the world, as well extensively monitor social media and other venues of social congregation, actively manipulate with narratives/ as well as subvert and co-opt. It defies rational belief we are expected to believe they got caught with their pants down.
What conclusion do we draw here? Psyops are thing and govts will use the deaths of their own people for problem, reaction, solution purposes. This thing stinks to high heaven.
I can agree with much of that. I can see Israeli Humint being fooled, but it does seem hard to believe that prepping for this attack couldn't have been seen. OTOH, it's a known phenomenon that true believers in an intel narrative can overrule hard evidence. Overall, I don't see the cui bono to theories that this was all planned out by Israel somehow.
I'm an internet random, 'the chatter', I'm not required to dot the i's and cross the t's to support my opinions in published pieces. I have zero evidence to support my questioning of the narratives. But what I do have, is exposure of the rotten belly of our collective establishments, that they no longer operate to expected norms, to which a degree of trust could be conferred upon them. That's gone.
I do not believe Israeli intelligence was blindsided. I don't know what we are seeing here (I look to various sources including yours for sentiments/analysis), but them failing to pick up a coordinated assault, with all the logistics, secrecy and planning involved? No way man.
What of Hamas? Why wouldn't they be subverted by Israeli intelligence? How sophisticated can they be? vs Mossad? Is Hamas capable of doing anything serious other than exist to play the role of an existential threat to Israel, thus justifying the array of military and intelligence might at Israel's disposal? A populace in a state of constant threat of war or instability is vulnerable to measures and bills, that erode their rights and freedoms.
I don't believe in official narratives. There's lots f
"It's the greatest intelligence failure in modern history." Oh wait, we already had that on 9-11.
Egypt was warning something big was coming, and was ignored.
Israel was too focused on their internal color revolution.
And their gun control was even worse. People were restricted to 50 bullets and had to take repeated classes.
https://www.coffeeandcovid.com/p/sponsors-monday-october-9-2023-c
I can’t believe the queer’s for Palestine. Israel should offer free one way tickets to Gaza, Afghanistan, or Iran for members.
Where do you suppose the Israeli pilots who attacked the USS Liberty are today? Those who gave the orders?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident
Does Mark Steyn know?
Where are the perpetrators of the massacre of Egyptian POWs? Well, we know some of them:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ras_Sedr_massacre
The USS Liberty incident is well documented. Spend some time reading up on it. In the meantime, read my latest comment on this thread. I have read elsewhere accounts by Israeli soldiers of similar incidents, before the advent of internet and smart phones etc.
While there's truth in some of that, it's also terribly simplistic--deliberately so, and deliberately lumps events together without context. The answer to Islam is not to attempt to colonize a small corner of it while perpetrating injustices upon its inhabitants. Moreover it is not at all clear to me that Israel is truly part of the West. In fairness, Greenfield doesn't suggest that. But Greenfield's "the world" is composed of parts with very different interests and values. Japan, China, India, Africa, what used to be the West.
Well, at least back then, they had cool names back then: Baldwin, Tancred, Godfrey du Bouillon
While there's no doubt that various parties benefit in various ways from these sad events, I side with Mercouris in saying that the basic decision was up to Hamas--even though I'm quite sure they had assistance. Any political benefit to Israel will be, IMO, relatively short term, so I don't think the motive is there. This is definitely not a benefit for US geopolitics as far as I can see. US taxpayers will not be guilt tripped re Ukraine--they'll be too angry at US politicians.
was watching FoxNews segment last night where Gowdy interviewed a former Natl Security person where she was convinced it was Iran's intent to destroy the negotiations between Israel and Saudia Arabia. Seems to be the pervasive thinking among the DC elites versus our / Mercouris perspective.
I think Mercouris is correct--that's most likely a propaganda narrative. KSA normalizing with Israel was not going to change it's joining BRICS or normalizing with Iran. OTOH, KSA has been looking for more weaponry from the US.
*Mandatory Palestine*
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandatory_Palestine
Mandatory Palestine was a geopolitical entity established between 1920 and 1948 in the region of Palestine under the terms of the League of Nations Mandate for Palestine.
British censuses and estimations
In 1920, the majority of the approximately 750,000 people in this multi-ethnic region were Arabic-speaking Muslims, ... as well as Jews (who accounted for some 11% of the total) ....
The first census of 1922 showed a population of 757,182, of whom 78% were Muslim, 11% Jewish and 10% Christian.
The second census, of 1931, gave a total population of 1,035,154 of whom 73.4% were Muslim, 16.9% Jewish and 8.6% Christian.
Anna, the people who lived there pre-1948 could have been called Oompaloompas. Doesn't matter. They lived there and were kicked out.
I hope that if you ever had your property stolen, no-one ever says that to you.
I'd qualify that slightly, Lem. Land is OCCUPIED by the strongest. Whether it BELONGS to them in the ethical and legal sense is more debatable. Again, coming back to the personal example, if I take your land and occupy with all my armed family members, would you agree that it belongs to me? Sure, there are the "facts on the ground" - if you want your land back you have to turf me out. However, I doubt you'd agree that your land now "belongs" to me.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinians#Identity
In general, I personally believe Wikipedia “facts”, especially on political subject matter, are to be taken with a very healthy dose of skepticism. It leans to the left, and aligns itself with the Regime’s narrative at all times. It may be right in this instance, but I’d need more verification. In this case I do think there were indigenous people who were displaced at the time of the creation of Israel, but doubt they identified themselves with a nation called “Palestine.” And I think the fires have been stoked by anti-Israel State outsiders ever since that time.
I note that you set up a strawman "Wikipedia" while not disputing any of the cited sources.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yasser_Arafat
His father was Palestinian, from Gaza, and his mother was Egyptian.
It doesn't matter whether the Arabs living within Mandatory Palestine called themselves "Palestinians". They lived there.