I picked this up from TGP. We’ve consistently seen from polling that the political fallout of the Palestine crisis has been overwhelmingly felt in the Dem party. What I mean is, while there has been significant movement in the polls on the Republican side away from unquestioning support for Israel, that has not yet translated into movement in approval of disapproval for any particular politician. At least not as far as we can tell. That is not true on the Dem side. Gallup is reporting that Dem approval of Zhou—I know that’s hard to conceptualize, but …—has taken a serious hit, due to his blank check support for Israel against Palestinians:
Will Schryver is very pessimistic about the build up of US forces in the region in his latest article: "Israel is clearly working in concert with the US/NATO in whatever is brewing. And make no mistake, something big IS brewing...As I view it, there can be only one primary target that would warrant such a large projection of military power as is underway: Iran and its allies in Iraq, Syria, and Lebanon. And, as I have repeatedly argued over the years, I am convinced making war against Iran is a recipe for unforeseen disaster. Iran wields much more military capability than is generally understood and appreciated both by western military analysts and the western populace." Yikes!
If WS is right, then the US is trapped in a doom cycle of constantly repeated mistakes from which it never learns. His final sentence is particularly depressing as you can replace the word "Iran" with Russia/the Taliban/Hezbollah/the Vietcong....
Agreed, Frank. When I walk around my small town, things look much the same as they have done forever. However, there is an inescapable feeling that something is going to break. Let's do what we can to make sure that what comes out of it is good.
1. US planes attacked Iranian supported groups in Syria tonight, presumably in retaliation for attacks on our illegal bases there.
2. Mike Johnson said that the funding for Ukraine and Israel would be separated rather than bundled in a package. My guess is the Israel aid goes through but the Ukraine aid may have trouble.
Do you think there may be analagous, though less pronounced, cross-currents among folks on the right — i.e., that unconditional support for Israel may be waning among conservatives too? Or, maybe I am just extrapolating from my own experience: being surprised at the alienation I feel towards people I ordinarily think well of, but whose reflexive pro-Israel jingoism I now find grating. (Eg., Megyn Kelly, Dan Bongino?)
I think you are correct. The reflexive pro-Israel stance requires someone to be uninformed or willfully blind. I was definitely in the former category until recently.
I have that feeling too, BA. People are horrified by what Hamas did, but I sense a feeling of Israel fatigue too. Maybe after all the Covid and Ukraine razzmatazz people just aren't up to another big "cause" that we all have to line up behind.
To your list you can add Mark Levin (a thoroughly reliable constitutional scholar), but whose Cold War hawkishness has made him, I would imagine, a most uncomfortable bedfellow with those wheeler-dealers busy taking out (or trying to!) Trump, whom Levin has always vigorously supported…as you point out, BA, he is not alone in this category. Money has to be made, as Kat says!
Uh huh, I know what you mean. Jingoism is an interesting criticism and astute. I have to think those trying to make it in the “new” media are addressing an audience that is reflexively supportive of Israel. Figure the Evangelicals who trend conservative. Money has to be made to remain relevant.
Again, with no dog in this fight, but merely as an observer: The donors to the liberal colleges are voting their donations accordingly. Anecdotally, folks in charge of hiring are doing likewise.
Pro-Palestinian students/employees-to-be are being faced with forty miles of bad road.
Being a “friend” of the US has proven to be dangerous and have unfortunate consequences as well. I still can’t figure where this is going, but I do know that truth is a foreign language to those in charge at the moment.
Being originally from that area of Detroit, I’ve been waiting for this day to arrive. The governor Frau Whitler, doesn’t know what to do or who to support. Love it when they eat their own.
Haley also said we should admit Palestinian "refugees" to the US. Don't we already have enough military-age Islamic "refugees" coming through our southern border (through ports of entry and undetected)?
Then your argument is that the path to peace is to support Israeli genocide against Palestinians. Zionism has always been as radical an ideology as Islamism (for want of a better term). How does the West become trapped in the choice between supporting two potentially genocidal ideologies?
the American Indians didn't have strong nation-state support past early french-english-american wars. Like it or no, there are today strong alternative opinions that the US has engaged in forms of genocide. But that is a straw argument. How you end up in an eliminationist scenario, while important as to intentions and manipulations, matters not so much as you are stuck contemplating to take the eliminationist step (hard to see how in the Gaza situation that doesn't land us at world war three and the distinct risk of losing more than one nation as a going concern), or do something, pace Howard, to change the core problem premise. I do believe in the adaptability of people and the hand of the Lord. I am certain the nitwits running the show on all sides today are not going to come up with a new way forward. They all gotta go.
Will Schryver is very pessimistic about the build up of US forces in the region in his latest article: "Israel is clearly working in concert with the US/NATO in whatever is brewing. And make no mistake, something big IS brewing...As I view it, there can be only one primary target that would warrant such a large projection of military power as is underway: Iran and its allies in Iraq, Syria, and Lebanon. And, as I have repeatedly argued over the years, I am convinced making war against Iran is a recipe for unforeseen disaster. Iran wields much more military capability than is generally understood and appreciated both by western military analysts and the western populace." Yikes!
https://alethonews.com/2023/10/26/aces-and-eights/
If WS is right, then the US is trapped in a doom cycle of constantly repeated mistakes from which it never learns. His final sentence is particularly depressing as you can replace the word "Iran" with Russia/the Taliban/Hezbollah/the Vietcong....
Agreed, Frank. When I walk around my small town, things look much the same as they have done forever. However, there is an inescapable feeling that something is going to break. Let's do what we can to make sure that what comes out of it is good.
Whether serious negotiations are on the horizon or not, it does seem that the IDF ground attack is on hold for the moment.
Two bits of breaking news:
1. US planes attacked Iranian supported groups in Syria tonight, presumably in retaliation for attacks on our illegal bases there.
2. Mike Johnson said that the funding for Ukraine and Israel would be separated rather than bundled in a package. My guess is the Israel aid goes through but the Ukraine aid may have trouble.
And Johnson led congress in faith and prayer comments too.
Do you think there may be analagous, though less pronounced, cross-currents among folks on the right — i.e., that unconditional support for Israel may be waning among conservatives too? Or, maybe I am just extrapolating from my own experience: being surprised at the alienation I feel towards people I ordinarily think well of, but whose reflexive pro-Israel jingoism I now find grating. (Eg., Megyn Kelly, Dan Bongino?)
I think you are correct. The reflexive pro-Israel stance requires someone to be uninformed or willfully blind. I was definitely in the former category until recently.
I have that feeling too, BA. People are horrified by what Hamas did, but I sense a feeling of Israel fatigue too. Maybe after all the Covid and Ukraine razzmatazz people just aren't up to another big "cause" that we all have to line up behind.
To your list you can add Mark Levin (a thoroughly reliable constitutional scholar), but whose Cold War hawkishness has made him, I would imagine, a most uncomfortable bedfellow with those wheeler-dealers busy taking out (or trying to!) Trump, whom Levin has always vigorously supported…as you point out, BA, he is not alone in this category. Money has to be made, as Kat says!
Uh huh, I know what you mean. Jingoism is an interesting criticism and astute. I have to think those trying to make it in the “new” media are addressing an audience that is reflexively supportive of Israel. Figure the Evangelicals who trend conservative. Money has to be made to remain relevant.
Again, with no dog in this fight, but merely as an observer: The donors to the liberal colleges are voting their donations accordingly. Anecdotally, folks in charge of hiring are doing likewise.
Pro-Palestinian students/employees-to-be are being faced with forty miles of bad road.
Pro-Hamas = Go Woke, Get Broke.
Being a “friend” of the US has proven to be dangerous and have unfortunate consequences as well. I still can’t figure where this is going, but I do know that truth is a foreign language to those in charge at the moment.
Truth is a foreign language and sanity is another universe.
https://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/4192562/posts
Democrats’ divisions on Israel-Hamas war boil over in Michigan as Detroit-area Muslims feel betrayed
Being originally from that area of Detroit, I’ve been waiting for this day to arrive. The governor Frau Whitler, doesn’t know what to do or who to support. Love it when they eat their own.
Haley also said we should admit Palestinian "refugees" to the US. Don't we already have enough military-age Islamic "refugees" coming through our southern border (through ports of entry and undetected)?
Then your argument is that the path to peace is to support Israeli genocide against Palestinians. Zionism has always been as radical an ideology as Islamism (for want of a better term). How does the West become trapped in the choice between supporting two potentially genocidal ideologies?
See the new post.
the American Indians didn't have strong nation-state support past early french-english-american wars. Like it or no, there are today strong alternative opinions that the US has engaged in forms of genocide. But that is a straw argument. How you end up in an eliminationist scenario, while important as to intentions and manipulations, matters not so much as you are stuck contemplating to take the eliminationist step (hard to see how in the Gaza situation that doesn't land us at world war three and the distinct risk of losing more than one nation as a going concern), or do something, pace Howard, to change the core problem premise. I do believe in the adaptability of people and the hand of the Lord. I am certain the nitwits running the show on all sides today are not going to come up with a new way forward. They all gotta go.