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Naeem Khan's avatar

The Chinese have been doing extensive research on the effects of Massive Ordnance Penetrator (MOP) bombs like the much touted GBU 57 bunker buster on reinforced concrete structures. The findings showed that diamond shaped protective reinforced concrete structures deflect penetrating munitions thereby considerably reducing its penetration as well as lethality. Who is to say the Chinese have not shared this information with the Iranians. (The 'Daniel Davis Deep Dive' did a programme on this on YT for anyone interested). The million dollar question is, what if the GBU 57 fails to deliver the results expected? Will it be tactical nukes next? This could so easily get out of hand and ignite the whole region in a war, even WW3. One can only hope the US President, or those advising him, understand the gravity and consequences of whatever decisions he makes.

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Cosmo T Kat's avatar

Those advising him are Zionist zealots and pro-war ghouls. We need Yoko Ono to be the last person he talks with when she advises just “Give Peace a chance…..”

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Mark Wauck's avatar

I see this morning that the tanker aircraft that have been crossing the Pacific--presumably bound for Diego Garcia--are now being followed by 6 B-2s. Interestingly, yesterday, Tony Schaffer maintained that a successful attack on Fordow would probably require 10 B-2s all attacking within 3 minutes.

Regarding protective structures in underground facilities, reports that I've read over the months maintain that Iran and North Korea are also pretty much state of the art in this field. The illusion of attack enthusiasts is that there's no defense against these GBU-57, but this is far from the truth. Even without taking defensive construction structures underground into consideration, there are many variables--starting with the fact that we don't actually know what's down there and where it all actually is. That's behind Schaffer's contention--and he helped design "strike packages" when he was in military intel--that at least 10 B-2s (20 such bombs) would be required. From a simply military perspective this is all quite reckless.

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Its Just Me's avatar

Don't we have enough problems domestically that need our attention?

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V. Dominique's avatar

Although there may be some cognitive issues considering his age, dementia doesn't just effect memory, mood and personality. It also effects movement and balance, what is called "dementia posturing". I don't seen any signs of "dementia posturing" in Trump. That said, I think there should be an age limit regarding political and judicial office, and that 70 would be a reasonable place to draw that line.

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Steghorn21's avatar

Tucker did the world a great service yesterday by ripping Cruz a new one.

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Tristam's avatar

Cruz's ignorance about Iran takes on added importance: He said "Iranians are Persian." Not so.Numerous ethnicities (in a definite pecking order). Khameini is Azeri; some are Lors, Arabs, Kurds, etc. No doubt Cruz is not the only dumb cluck in Senate who would have no idea about those divisions.

Trita Parsi, Chas Freeman, Larry Wilkerson on Nima's network, stated that intention was to divide Iran along some of its ethnic lines, giving this section to, i.e. Azerbaijan; another to Kurds, etc.

Parsi said one resolution is regional consortium nuclear; Wilkerson said, good resolution is to make the region nuclear-free: Israel would have to give up its weapons. YES. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeaRV3JbtzY

OTOH, Diesen, Mearsheimer and Mercouris concluded that a best outcome would be for a ceasefire and negotiation, with care to be taken "not to humiliate Israel;" and "not to back Israel into a corner, because that would only make Israel lash out." Israel could say, "USA made us do it." The trio registered concern that nonproliferation had become badly eroded. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dalbnR8vNvs

Hells bells! Israel needs to be punished. They act as they do because they have never been held to account. As well, if Israel emerges as rewarded, surrounding nations will seethe.

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Steghorn21's avatar

Israel can't avoid humiliation. Even if a ceasefire happened tomorrow and it was relatively favourable to Israel, the whole world has witnessed their cities getting bombed for the first time and their abject grovelling to Trump for help.

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Mark Wauck's avatar

And this is leading to increasing political disarray in Israel. Over the last two days the mayor of Haifa has been calling for peace with Iran. I agree. The end of this war, which will come, will not bring peace to Israeli society.

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Steghorn21's avatar

A golden comment from someone called ManonFirst at Zerohedge:

"An ancient Israeli tablet from 2798 BC has finally been translated: 'Persia is only a few weeks away from developing nuclear weapons.'"

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Cosmo T Kat's avatar

*chuckle*

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Tristam's avatar

Trump's decision should be simple: participating in any way in Israel's attack on Iran IS NOT LEGAL. Even to send Israel money is contrary to US policy.

Where are the lawyers?

There are lawyers from the most elite of US-based international law firms who are retired -- nothing to lose. Why are they not speaking out to remind the administration that one does not wage war on a whim -- there are legal consequences.

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rakyat kecil's avatar

Surely you jest Tristam, what were the legal consequences for Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam, North Korea well at least NKorea was sanctioned ny UNSC.

Would be nice to see people in the dock responsible but that is delusional thinking.

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Tristam's avatar

I wasn't thinking of a trial; thinking more of a group of estimable attorneys drafting an opinion on the legal issues, and possible legal consequences, of one or another action Trump might take. Publish in major press and legal journals, the like.

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Joanne C. Wasserman's avatar

Who gamed this out? Not Gov. Hair Gel, this time. Anyone else having nice coiffed hair: Rubio, Hegseth. As you said, Trump doesn't game things out....I apologize for my cynacism in this death spiraling MAGA Season.

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Mark Stoneweapon's avatar

I think the objective of the Trump admin and the Pentagon is to maintain a certain threshold of destabilization in the ME to keep foreign capital invested into dollar denominated assets. We saw this materialize with the plandemic, absurd tariff rates and sanctions, and now that Gaza is pretty much ethnically cleansed, they've started a new front against Iran—continuity of war hasn't been restrained even in the slightest.

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Kenneth's avatar

I think excellent analysis. Big stick is really only a toothpick in my opinion. Not enough defensive missiles to protect ourselves let alone Israel.

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Doug Hoover's avatar

The only advantage of being unpredictable, is if you are Purposely Going to War.

For Negotiating purposes, note the defense of the Alamo, when they declined surrender.

Less 200 irregulars held off a Multi Thousand man army,

with almost as many Cannon,

as The Alamo had Defenders.

The Alamo Lost the Battle, but They Won the War.

Many More Examples in History.

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rakyat kecil's avatar

Seems as though reaping the benefits of said war in California at the moment though Mr Hoover.

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Doug Hoover's avatar

The point is the difficulty punking over smaller countries, Which seems to be the purpose of back to back wars.

Ancient Rome collapsed, fighting foreign wars on credit.

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rakyat kecil's avatar

One can only hope Rome's destiny is the same for today's hegemon but quickly so populace suffers less.

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rakyat kecil's avatar

That seems a positive but it would be called antisemitic and judges being conservative by nature would baulk at the job and the ICC seem to have gone quiet, Iran seems to be having a strong effect and let's hope they keep it up and aren't like VV Putin whose main priority is business with the West for his oligarchs. Iran hopes Isreal will stop so they will is not a great sign and smell of possible secret communications. We have heard nothing from the western leaning Pezeshkian, wonder what he thinks of his darling West now?

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Steghorn21's avatar

I'll repeat something I've thought many, many times over the years: why is that we schlubs who have no inside information or contacts can see that this won't work, but these "experts" continue to fall into the trap time after time?

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rakyat kecil's avatar

G'day S21, is it they can't see what's in front of them or what they need to see is how to start another war as they have been lobbied by the MIC.

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Cosmo T Kat's avatar

The "experts" with inside information are paid to clap like seals, we are not hence our vision is not clouded by the will to see what's not there.

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NFO's avatar

It's also pretty fascinating that, once "expert consensus" takes root, even those who are not directly "paid to clap" ultimately do. Retaining status, being invited to the right events, networking upward, etc., will cause otherwise-intelligent people to adopt certain fashionable positions that, through repetition and social reward, soon become an orthodox canon of belief. I think Joanne's fantastic quote is quite apt: "He is often the man who in his heart knows the truth, and in his mind he's decided not to face it. He devoted his brain to justifying the stultification of his conscience." Whatever you want to call it, "mass formation," "cognitive dissonance," etc. (I'm no shrink, so have at it), there is a sort of "breaking" of the brain over time to the point where no discernment of facts or alternate reasoning remains possible.

Nowhere is this truer than in DC, particularly, when it comes to foreign policy. Folks I've known for many years, with similar educations and access to the same facts, just sort of glaze over entirely whenever I present a fact-based, yet heterodox, argument or set of facts. It's so bizarre that I've just given up trying. Also, a real timesaver, as I no longer get invited anywhere ;-)

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Steghorn21's avatar

Agreed. Imagine how Tulsi Gabbard is feeling right now for telling Trump the likely truth. She got another direct public insult from him today.

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NFO's avatar

Shameful. I go back and forth between wanting a noisy resignation and maintaining someone honorable (I still believe she is trying to do the right thing, as integrity is her entire stock in trade with John Q. Public at this point) near, if no longer fully inside, the tent.

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Joanne C. Wasserman's avatar

Thank you for saying this. It reminded me of a phrase I keep, written by a Music Teacher to his students graduating from high school (published by one of his students in the American Thinker, a long while ago). Considering any of those "experts", the teacher admonishes that he would be a cynic, and so: "Abjure cynacism. Do not be deceived by the false intellectualism of the cynic. He is often the man who in his heart knows the truth, and in his mind hs decided not to face it. He devoted his brain to justifying the stultification of his conscience. Cynicism in [him] strangles creativity in others."

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Cosmo T Kat's avatar

Thank you, Joanne for acknowledging my comment and presenting me with such a great phrase and anecdote!

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Joanne C. Wasserman's avatar

Thank YOU, Cosmo; I like your spot-on thinking, and the great phrase "paid to clap like seals".

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Tamsin's avatar
1dEdited

Considering chess or checkers, or poker, or bridge, a reminder of Michael Ledeen's dictum on playing bridge, retrieved by the WSJ on his recent passing,

From “Bridge—Not Chess—Is the Ultimate War Game” by Michael Ledeen in the Journal, May 18, 2015, Ledeen died Saturday at 83:

/quote

You’ll often hear that chess is the ultimate model for geopolitics, indeed for war itself. In the 1963 hit movie “From Russia With Love,” James Bond is menaced by the brilliant Soviet chess master Tov Kronsteen (clearly modeled on Boris Spassky).

But Eisenhower knew better. No board game can replicate the conditions of the battlefield or the maneuvers of geostrategy, for one simple reason: All of the pieces are visible on the table. Card games are better models because vital information is always concealed by the “fog of war” and the deception of opponents. Most of the time a bridge player sees only one-quarter of the cards, and some of the information he might gather from them is false.

Bridge is largely about communication, and every message a player sends—by bidding or playing a significant card—is broadcast to the player’s partner and his opponents. Frequently a player will have to decide whether he would rather tell the truth to his partner (thereby informing his opponents) or deceive the enemy (thus running the risk of seriously fooling his ally across the table).

Nothing like this exists in even the greatest board games. They permit some feints, to be sure, but not outright lies. Great bridge players are great liars—as are brilliant military leaders and diplomats and politicians.... The difficulty of weighing truth and lies is one reason that computers don’t win at bridge, whereas at the highest level of chess they do very well.

/endquote

http://www.wsj.com/articles/bridgenot-chessis-the-ultimate-war-game-1431899680?reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

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Cosmo T Kat's avatar

Brilliant!

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Tamsin's avatar
1dEdited

"Mr. Ledeen, a freedom scholar at the Foundation for the Defense of Democracies, is a bridge life master and the former coach of the Israeli national bridge team."

We here in this combox would prefer to speak the truth, but we live in a world where liars win in this world; how do we defend ourselves against this... call it "terrorism"?

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Steghorn21's avatar

"They do unaccountable things and can’t be trusted to come to sensible decisions, despite the appearance of being totally “with it” in most ways." I think we can safely tick that box where Trump is concerned.

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Ray Runge's avatar

Your speculation about Trump's cognitive deterioration is questionable, at best. How long and how much time have you, your wife or confidants spent in direct contact to observe official conversations? Careful in your publicized message. TDS is an easily acquired illness in both acute and chronic forms. Excoriation of Trump with the issues at hand is the helpful source.

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Steghorn21's avatar

So how would you classify his recent comments, Runge? Publicly insulting his intelligence chief, threatening to kill foreign leaders, constantly threatening fire and brimstone against anyone who disses America. You don't need a copy of DSM-4 to realise that these are not the utterances of a wise and well-balanced individual. As for TDS, it depends what variant you are talking about: Trump Derangement Syndrome or Trump Delusion Syndrome. They are both highly virulent and probably incurable.

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Cosmo T Kat's avatar

Well said, Steg!

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Cosmo T Kat's avatar

Arm chair diagnosis is usually a difficult task so I like to refer to it as speculation born out of wonder and likely concern. As for TDS, I think you are way off base. Most criticism of Trump, at least at this site, is from people who voted for him and had high hopes. I stop short of expectations, given the circumstances in our country and the depth of betrayal our politicians demonstrate so, hope is all we can express. We cannot fathom the absurdity of all this, do you? So, what are your excoriations of the issues at your hand? Please allow us your insight as a helpful source.

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Joanne C. Wasserman's avatar

Count me in as "hoper"

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Steghorn21's avatar

Yep. People voted in a majority for America First and no more stupid, forever wars. And when they rightly dare to notice that those aren't happening they are accused of suffering from TDS.

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Cosmo T Kat's avatar

Amazing isn't it.............

I wander off into other sites to see what they have to say and what their readers are saying. Kuntsler today pushed the Pro-Zionist button today as he made a defense of the tribe and their murderous ways. As the old saying goes, none are so blind as those unwilling to see. To wit:

"The focus of all this angst for the moment is Israel. Suspicion runs deep that Israel “owns” America, bends us to its will, treats us like a mere lackey in its quest to dominate the world. It does this, they say, through AIPAC, its chief lobbyist, stuffing money into every pocket and every campaign treasure-chest in DC. In reality, political payoff-wise, AIPAC, at $3.3-million (according to OpenSecrets.org) doesn’t hold a candle to the National Association of Realtors at $63.5-million, the Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America, at $30-million, and the US Chamber of Commerce, at $29.6-million."

Snip------

"Of course, the AIPAC suspicion tends to redound upon plain-old, age-old hatin’ on the Jews. (Full disclosure, yours truly is one.)"

Well, there you have it. What's missing here is that other major major lobbyists are not foreign and their interests lie in the segment of economy they represent. These associations are not granted an annual tribute of billions of dollars to be used in any way they see fit. Hence bribes turn those into more billions and an outsized influence on our geopolitics, and where we choose to wage war and for whose benefit. RTWT

https://www.kunstler.com/p/anxiety-attack?publication_id=2076970&post_id=166392443&isFreemail=true&r=8t0x5&triedRedirect=true

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Ray-SoCa's avatar

AIPAC is only part of the Israeli influence operation, just the most visible, the tip of the iceberg. There is also a council that was mentioned in an article on Epstein. Victoria secrets owner and Seagrams family were both members of it.

What’s makes aipac so fearsome is a proven track record of primarying their opponents, and often winning.

And Ted Cruz, Israel’s biggest supporter per his Tucker interview, his rise hints at more of the Israeli influence operation:

https://theconservativetreehouse.com/blog/2025/06/18/tucker-carlson-debates-senator-ted-cruz-on-israel-and-foreign-policy/#more-273193

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Cosmo T Kat's avatar

You are on target. AIPAC is the most visible, but the influence and money run deeper and wider.

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Mark Wauck's avatar

Hadda a good laff over Kunstler referring to "us" as if he's one of us. By the way, that's the same kinda BS that Berletic peddles. No concept of political leverage and targeted donations. AIPAC is spending money to leverage politicians to go against the clear interests of America. Those other lobbies are simply not in that position.

Sorry for repeating what you said so well.

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Cosmo T Kat's avatar

Yes, there was quite a bit of a grin factor in his post today. I wonder if he was reacting to his Monday post with this post. There were a lot of people reacting, not in Israel's favor. Today there's quite a bit of Pro-Zionist chirping among the readers. So, many want to educate (lecture) the Gentiles as to the specialness of the state of Israel and their great diaspora and how their issues are our issues and what evil Iran presents. Oy!

Thanks for the kind remark.

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Mark Wauck's avatar

That's hardly helpful advice. I'm going on publicly available material and examining that rationally. That speaks for itself. If he's not judgment impaired, what's the explanation? Terminal stupidity? Criminal corruption?

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rakyat kecil's avatar

You got the answer right there Mark but your cognitive dissonance says ouch.

Great round up of things thank you,

Check out John Helmers latest to see the Kremlins true position in regards their latest sell of a partner or/and an agreement. Sad but Zanon cope as usual is ignoring the matter wonder why.

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Ray-SoCa's avatar

Trump is trying to avoid war with direct U.S. involvement, while avoiding political destruction by the Israeli Lobby in the U.S. if he is successful, it will be a true showing of being a political Houdini.

Note - no direct kinetic attack on Iran so far by the U.S., even with super intense pressure to do so. Watch Trumps actual actions, not the chaff / smoke.

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Its Just Me's avatar

Thanks, Ray.

I've been in your camp, and I guess I still am, but Trump is making me awfully nervous.

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Ray-SoCa's avatar

Me too. The pressure on him from Israel must be biblical.

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aDoozy's avatar

I am watching PDJT argue with friends, then insult and call them names publicly, and push them away with finality.

Such a stressful time--he needs caring friends close, yet he rejects them.

A mentally healthy person does not do this.

And...yes, paranoia is a definite symptom of dementia. To not trust a very intelligent and gracious woman that campaigned for him, who he entrusted with such a vital job, is odd behavior--what happened to his common sense?

Finally, where is the man's former compassion? He is now engaging in the ruthless, murdering acts of war. No remorse, Mr. President?

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rakyat kecil's avatar

Former compassion? Must have been in a former life, your name refers to the above comment apparently. Please advise of a few of his compassionate actions please so I could reappraise my opinion of the most dangerous person atm.

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James Blacic's avatar

We may be underestimating the psychological effects of a bloodied ear? Tulsi looking better all the time.

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aDoozy's avatar

A brush with death is definitely a trauma. People can have long-term behavior and psychological changes due to a trauma...PTSD.

From her words and actions, I think that Tulsi could make a good President.

I actually thought that before Rubio was picked to be SoS, that Tulsi might be chosen...alas.

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Steghorn21's avatar

Sorry, Ray, my friend, but here we disagree. Trump is not trying to avoid war. If he really, really wanted war, what would he do differently from now? Nothing, as far as I can see. And I get tired of this "poor, passive victim" stuff. People voted him in because they want someone with the political and personal courage to tell the Zionists and other powerful lobbies to go to hell.

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Mark Wauck's avatar

Bingo.

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Mark Wauck's avatar

"Trump is trying to avoid war with direct U.S. involvement"

But NOT trying to actually avoid war.

Alan MacLeod @AlanRMacLeod

55m

Unbelievable.

Israel is currently bombing FIVE countries [with US weaponry]. But some [in Israel] are already planning for ANOTHER war [on Qatar--citing current Times of Israel article].

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rakyat kecil's avatar

Any links on the misbehaviour of Qatar that requires IDF attention please Mark.

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Mark Wauck's avatar

Their support for Hamas.

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rakyat kecil's avatar

It really is just deserts for Netanyahu and his mizrahi lot as they funded Hamas as a bulwark against Al fatah who were actually secular who were trying to take over Gaza. Now they want to attack sheikdoms for supporting similar Sunni mobs this surely is something else.

I did security for Vanessa Redgrave during her tour of Australia with the film The Palestinians shortly after Sabra and Shatila massacre before the destruction of nationalist regimes who had the support of the Arab street and the creation of Islamic brotherhood or Islamist takfiri jihadis by the US spooks.

Now the mess is splattering stateside, spooks play every side.

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Mark Wauck's avatar

Yeah. I'm watching genocide in Gaza, destruction of a nation in Syria, etc. Destruction of the American brand. Flirting with nuclear war by supporting savage Jewish Nationalist aggression in the Middle East and attempted suppression of speech in the US. Actual actions.

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aDoozy's avatar
1dEdited

Israel is like the Tasmanian Devil in its wild, hungry whirl.

https://youtu.be/Hn2GRD_JZeU?si=8akqrlmy-zONCnzb

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Tristam's avatar
1dEdited

Some months ago Jonathan Pollard urged that Israel wage war on Iran: "as all Israelis know," Iran is weaker than ever, its economy strained"

Ten minutes ago, Ray McGovern in a friendly exchange with Bob Scheer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P62UuMa0FlQ. McGovern argued that Iran was capable and had a large arsenal of missiles. Scheer pushed back: "Israel has always been the best, the most technologically savvy."

I thought he was just making a point for sake of argument.

McGovern: "Well, Iranians are highly capable, have capable missiles," etc.

Once again, Scheer said he had to push back: can't be as you say.

McGovern, once more into the breach, tried to lay out facts for Scheer, but with his closing remarks Scheer rejected McGovern's information.

Scheer has drunk deep the koolaid. Rather astonishing.

Israelis are systematically brainwashed -- no other word for it -- from earliest age and from even more directions than Americans are zio-washed.

Pollard. Scheer. They believe as a fact of nature that Israel is superior and others -- Iranians -- are inherently inferior.

That can't be erased from the Israeli psyche with missile strikes.

Moreover, Israelis are yachting to Cyprus and fleeing across the Sinai.

Where will they go? How will they behave when they get there?

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Joanne C. Wasserman's avatar

I do think you are speaking the truth in every descriptor. The supremacist mindset is from their upraising from birth. their stories about their history as a people made to wander throughout the world as nomads, sometimes as conditional residents, but never as citizens of the other nations (but for Napoleonic France)---Not in the strories are their vulnerability to reality as Truth, which I think is their blind spot as a genetic defect, from the time that their Messiah came into the world and was rejected by His own.

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Mark Wauck's avatar

Big Serge @witte_sergei

18h

A nuke is the only thing that can deter the US from nuking you if you try to get a nuke.

Quote

Acyn @Acyn

19h

Heinrich on Iran: An article stated that Trump was not considering a tactical nuke— that it was not one of the options that was presented to him. I was just told by a top official here that none of that report is true— that none of the options are off the table

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Delta Mike's avatar

Excellent summary, one of the clearest I have read!

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Mark Wauck's avatar

Thanks!

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