Did Iran hold back because they don't want Israel to unleash the Samson Option? Maybe Iran doesn't want to back Netanyahu into a corner where he feels nuclear weapons are his only hope. Allow Benny to save face and hope Israel will depose him.
Trump should be truthful. He undermines his creditability if he insists that Fordow was destroyed or significantly damaged and the reality is the opposite.
How can I, as a supporter, trust him, if he's not truthful? This is the danger inherent in stretching or obsfucating the truth.
The fact alone that Israel is banning any coverage of damage proves that they took massive hits. And yes, Netanyahu will go all in to destroy the ceasefire. Let's see what kind of false flags he has lined up.
The most important question (for me at least): What would be the percentage difference in the approval rate of the genocide in Gaza between jews in Israel and those in the USA? That would clear up a lot of the fog regarding the question if Israel is just a US proxy. If the aproval rate is (noticeably) lower in the US I think we can safely say Israel is only a proxy.
Ok, but those in the audience are the politically active crowd; perhaps the silent (jewish) majority in US are not supporting the genocide; I don't know, I'm not american, that's why I'm asking around
Another problem regarding Jews relative to Israel-zionism is you never know who you are dealing with. We all have Jewish neighbors, friends, colleagues. But we self-censor, right?
Some years ago a 'conference on holocaust' was held at local Jewish center. The flier said my university was among the sponsors. I thought, Great. I'll connect with some alum. I contacted the university to find out who was sponsoring the university's presence at the event. Nobody knew. Not the dean, not the director of media, not the assistant to the president, not the head of the poli sci department -- nobody. Nobody knew anything about it. Nobody could tell me how the university's name came to appear on that flier.
Turned out a very low-level employee agent caused the university's name to appear. The commitment of Sayanim is a real thing, zionism's method of force multiplication.
Iran now confirms what’s long been suspected: Israeli drones entered Iranian airspace via Azerbaijani territory.
Ambassador Mehdi Sobhani stated that multiple UAVs penetrated from a “neighboring country,” and that Tehran has already requested a formal investigation from Baku through Pezeshkian. The message is clear, Azerbaijan is on notice.
If Aliyev stalls or denies, Iran reserves the right to interpret that as complicity. The next drone signals more than a defensive intercept, it marks the threshold where escalation begins. Baku is playing with fire it won’t be able to contain.
New leaks confirm Operation Rising Lion was a joint mission. U.S. Air Force KC-135s and KC-46s weren’t watching from the sidelines, they refueled Israeli fighters mid-air, keeping IAF jets aloft on long-range raids.
Washington’s tankers carried the load Israel’s aging tanker fleet couldn’t, sustaining 100s of sorties deep into Iran. What played out as an Israeli strike campaign was logistically underwritten by U.S. wings.
I just keep hoping that Trump is smarter than he seems and that this is all a planned neutering of Israel in favor of the US. But there is compelling evidence that the “America” in MAGA is like the dems “our democracy” - it’s code for the empire which is most definitely not going to make the America I live in great. The best possible outcome from here is an actual military alliance between Russia and Iran or China and Iran which prevents Israel from escalating ever again.
Perhaps, like Biden he was selected because he is not smart, but at least he appears capable. That’s the low bar that has been set for the control of all future POTUS’.
""""" But the ceasefire that Trump orchestrated—which he thought would be some kind of diplomatic master stroke—will not hold. """""
It will hold at least until Israel feels comfortable with re-stock in defensive missiles / interceptor missiles
or Iran will knock them silly again
just one persons opinion
Israel has no ability to counter Iran - and so they will try to provoke US into going in together
there is chatter on a false flag - would not find it surprising - I have no reason to believe Israel could go it alone
Israeli citizens are furious [ Iron Dome failures ] and Israel is broke - way too expensive
That they will focus on the killing to Gaza and Netanyahu will pivot to Gaza does not surprise me - killing women and children is easier than fighting Iran - and Netanyahu can claim a victory there.
"""""" Trump allowed Mossad and its agents in the administration (many appointed by Trump) talk him into the fantasy that Israel could collapse the Iranian regime."""""
Doctorow appears to make the argument on Napalitano and I'm inclined to agree
however perhaps wishful thinking
That Trump had no choice that Deep State ( defined in my prior post ) Adelson Netanyahu thought Israel would prevail - Trump disagreed - but Trump had no choice but to say - go ahead -
They went ahead then Trump and Deep State had to step in to bail them out -
My opinion is in part based on Trump video - they don't know what the fuck they are doing
======================================
============== If True Importantly ==============
I recall it was Doctorow that makes the claim [ I could be wrong ]
and I hope it is true
Trump may now say to Adelson Netanyahu - see I told ya so - and I spent 200 million flying B 52's there at great risk -
So Adelson - you are paid back - your monies for my election are now a wash
I am doing my own thing from here on in
- Lets hope that theory holds water and is the case.
Note what Max says. That Trump opened a Pandora's box, that he didn't understand the consequences of his green lighting. I think that's correct, because he never woulda green lit Israel's attack if he had understood. I think he bought off on the fantasy, just as his initial ebullient comments indicated. Then he had to back pedal like crazy. Emphasis on crazy.
Agreed a bit but that I believe Trump had no choice whether he was for or against it
So was Trump against it but had no choice, had to let Deep State learn it for themselves - maybe again I am giving Trump too much credit - Doctorow seems to constantly give Trump the benefit of the doubt and implies that is the Russia Putin perspective - So is Russia giving Trump benefit of the doubt ?
- I imagine US Israel thought odds 50 % 50 % at best due to Yemen and with the proposed surprise attack and the assassination of leadership and scientists - they actually believed they could do enough damages - that it put the odds in their favor - attack before Iran even knew what was happening - and that Iran would be so surprised and shaken they would capitulate
Pepe said as I recall - Israel wiped out Iran with the first attack, including computer systems, and it took Russia assistance and computer specialists to get Iran's computers back online.
I don't know I guess we will never know, but I guess there is hope the Trump was against it and now his debt to Adelson is paid and he can do what he wants now. I am hoping.
=
.
But then that hope for the future fades quickly when you think about Trump threating assassination of the Supreme Religious Leader and legitimizing terror and assassination as acceptable acts - Now we call Terrorist Act of Cell phones blowing up clever - Hiding drones in Trucks, Smart - They are setting new and horrific standards of war
When you cannot win on the battlefield Ukraine Isreal they quickly turn to terrorism - and the US media and press call it clever and applaud it
That should concern everyone
. So who knows - I imagine the Trump administration is as confused as we are.
Bob Scheer talking with Ray McGovern. Twice, thrice, a fourth time, Scheer cannot take it in that Iranians are not third-world incompetent, against "vastly superior West/Israel." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P62UuMa0FlQ
Before Khomeini revolution, Iranians were the largest cohort in US engineering graduate programs. Much of that stopped abruptly -- no more Iranian govt money to USA. But in Iran, brighter students attend university tuition-free. From a population of 90 million, lots of raw brain power available. Women are the majority of STEM graduates -- with or without hijab.
Iran cannot afford to dance with Israel by pulling its punches and hoping for sanity to arise. If, or when, Netanyahu strikes again, Iran should respond by fully shutting down Israel's national energy supply facilities. Target the distillation units in both of Israel's main refineries and the turbine rooms of all its major power generation stations. These are unrecoverable loses in the near and medium term, and will trigger a major civilian revolt against the current Israeli government. Israel's economy would immediately grind to a halt and a mass exodus will follow. The models show that this solution produces the least harm to all and fundamentally changes the paradigm in the Middle East. Whatever rump state is allowed to form in Ukraine may become the new homeland for the nearly 2 million Russian Jews currently living in Israel.
Israel is out of interceptor missiles for its Iron Dome and given its single source, it is going to be awhile before they have substantially more. If they engage Iran or its allies before they have substantially more, they are all likely to look like Gaza before their opponents run out of ammo. It is my understanding that the same source supplies the Ukraine and Israel in separate production runs, so both are likely to find ceasefire more survivable than engagement for some time.
Oh lord. Is that another motivation for their genocide of Gaza--to suppress the local resistance rockets, anticipating that a strike on Iran would take their stock of interceptors to carry out?
Apologies if I am late to the realization on this. I haven't seen anyone mention it in just that way.
That is one motivation yes. See how I said "another"? Also I'm not sure they are negligible. Not if Israel believes the Palestinians have backing from other countries, and Israel as a state act traumatized by every single Palestinian rocket that lands. They do achieve damage now and again even with the "iron dome".
The best that Hamas can do is assemble the smuggled parts of primitive missiles into working ones. They are the easiest ones for the Iron Dome to intercept. If the IDF could stop weapons, they could stop food and water.
The iron dome relies on rockets. If Israel planned to go after Iran perhaps they wanted their western side not firing rockets. Yes bigger professional missiles do more damage. So? You think they wanted to be in a position of preserving defensive arms to deal with Iran with an active source of explosives at their rear, and it's fine because not many get through when they can expend all the defensive weapons they want? I'm not seeing your point. Are you seeing mine?
What is the difference between rockets and missiles, in your opinion?
The effectiveness of Israel's defensive systems has been reduced from the much ballyhooed 90% to 50% by Iran's adoption of more sophisticated missiles, which they are increasing the inventory of much faster than Israel is increasing their inventory of interceptors.
One person's policy difference is another person's abuse.
Given that federal court judges can communicate better than the Borg, they are likely to circle the wagons and negate the SCOTUS's opinion with independent action.
Did Iran hold back because they don't want Israel to unleash the Samson Option? Maybe Iran doesn't want to back Netanyahu into a corner where he feels nuclear weapons are his only hope. Allow Benny to save face and hope Israel will depose him.
Trump should be truthful. He undermines his creditability if he insists that Fordow was destroyed or significantly damaged and the reality is the opposite.
How can I, as a supporter, trust him, if he's not truthful? This is the danger inherent in stretching or obsfucating the truth.
The fact alone that Israel is banning any coverage of damage proves that they took massive hits. And yes, Netanyahu will go all in to destroy the ceasefire. Let's see what kind of false flags he has lined up.
The most important question (for me at least): What would be the percentage difference in the approval rate of the genocide in Gaza between jews in Israel and those in the USA? That would clear up a lot of the fog regarding the question if Israel is just a US proxy. If the aproval rate is (noticeably) lower in the US I think we can safely say Israel is only a proxy.
Spends some time looking/listening to this, from Nov 2017 in New York City.
Jewish Leadership Conference https://tikvah.org/ideas/jlc-2024-videos/
(Tikvah is headed by Elliot Abrams)
The audience cheered when mention was made of the pager decapitation strike.
Ok, but those in the audience are the politically active crowd; perhaps the silent (jewish) majority in US are not supporting the genocide; I don't know, I'm not american, that's why I'm asking around
Another problem regarding Jews relative to Israel-zionism is you never know who you are dealing with. We all have Jewish neighbors, friends, colleagues. But we self-censor, right?
Some years ago a 'conference on holocaust' was held at local Jewish center. The flier said my university was among the sponsors. I thought, Great. I'll connect with some alum. I contacted the university to find out who was sponsoring the university's presence at the event. Nobody knew. Not the dean, not the director of media, not the assistant to the president, not the head of the poli sci department -- nobody. Nobody knew anything about it. Nobody could tell me how the university's name came to appear on that flier.
Turned out a very low-level employee agent caused the university's name to appear. The commitment of Sayanim is a real thing, zionism's method of force multiplication.
The problem with silent majorities is that they are silent. They don't make the decisions.
The_Real_Fly @The_Real_Fly
14m
Department of Homeland Security now providing $94 million in grants to Jewish organizations in order to combat antisemitism.
Where is DOGE when we need them?
Thomas Keith @iwasnevrhere_
4h
Iran now confirms what’s long been suspected: Israeli drones entered Iranian airspace via Azerbaijani territory.
Ambassador Mehdi Sobhani stated that multiple UAVs penetrated from a “neighboring country,” and that Tehran has already requested a formal investigation from Baku through Pezeshkian. The message is clear, Azerbaijan is on notice.
If Aliyev stalls or denies, Iran reserves the right to interpret that as complicity. The next drone signals more than a defensive intercept, it marks the threshold where escalation begins. Baku is playing with fire it won’t be able to contain.
Thomas Keith @iwasnevrhere_
2h
New leaks confirm Operation Rising Lion was a joint mission. U.S. Air Force KC-135s and KC-46s weren’t watching from the sidelines, they refueled Israeli fighters mid-air, keeping IAF jets aloft on long-range raids.
Washington’s tankers carried the load Israel’s aging tanker fleet couldn’t, sustaining 100s of sorties deep into Iran. What played out as an Israeli strike campaign was logistically underwritten by U.S. wings.
Trump keeps building corners to back himself into.
As expected, looks like Israel can't sit still, again. Southern Lebanon today:
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/israel-pummels-south-lebanon-biggest-airstrikes-november-hezbollah-ceasefire
I just keep hoping that Trump is smarter than he seems and that this is all a planned neutering of Israel in favor of the US. But there is compelling evidence that the “America” in MAGA is like the dems “our democracy” - it’s code for the empire which is most definitely not going to make the America I live in great. The best possible outcome from here is an actual military alliance between Russia and Iran or China and Iran which prevents Israel from escalating ever again.
I used to tell myself he was pretending to be dumb while playing fourth D chess, but I can't continue to believe that. We are screwed.
He isn’t smarter than he seems. He’s got a lot of people fooled perhaps. Who knows what his strategy is. The man is a walking contradiction.
Perhaps, like Biden he was selected because he is not smart, but at least he appears capable. That’s the low bar that has been set for the control of all future POTUS’.
""""" But the ceasefire that Trump orchestrated—which he thought would be some kind of diplomatic master stroke—will not hold. """""
It will hold at least until Israel feels comfortable with re-stock in defensive missiles / interceptor missiles
or Iran will knock them silly again
just one persons opinion
Israel has no ability to counter Iran - and so they will try to provoke US into going in together
there is chatter on a false flag - would not find it surprising - I have no reason to believe Israel could go it alone
Israeli citizens are furious [ Iron Dome failures ] and Israel is broke - way too expensive
That they will focus on the killing to Gaza and Netanyahu will pivot to Gaza does not surprise me - killing women and children is easier than fighting Iran - and Netanyahu can claim a victory there.
. Shamefully of course.
.
Iron Sieve
"""""" Trump allowed Mossad and its agents in the administration (many appointed by Trump) talk him into the fantasy that Israel could collapse the Iranian regime."""""
Doctorow appears to make the argument on Napalitano and I'm inclined to agree
however perhaps wishful thinking
That Trump had no choice that Deep State ( defined in my prior post ) Adelson Netanyahu thought Israel would prevail - Trump disagreed - but Trump had no choice but to say - go ahead -
They went ahead then Trump and Deep State had to step in to bail them out -
My opinion is in part based on Trump video - they don't know what the fuck they are doing
======================================
============== If True Importantly ==============
I recall it was Doctorow that makes the claim [ I could be wrong ]
and I hope it is true
Trump may now say to Adelson Netanyahu - see I told ya so - and I spent 200 million flying B 52's there at great risk -
So Adelson - you are paid back - your monies for my election are now a wash
I am doing my own thing from here on in
- Lets hope that theory holds water and is the case.
.
Note what Max says. That Trump opened a Pandora's box, that he didn't understand the consequences of his green lighting. I think that's correct, because he never woulda green lit Israel's attack if he had understood. I think he bought off on the fantasy, just as his initial ebullient comments indicated. Then he had to back pedal like crazy. Emphasis on crazy.
Agreed a bit but that I believe Trump had no choice whether he was for or against it
So was Trump against it but had no choice, had to let Deep State learn it for themselves - maybe again I am giving Trump too much credit - Doctorow seems to constantly give Trump the benefit of the doubt and implies that is the Russia Putin perspective - So is Russia giving Trump benefit of the doubt ?
- I imagine US Israel thought odds 50 % 50 % at best due to Yemen and with the proposed surprise attack and the assassination of leadership and scientists - they actually believed they could do enough damages - that it put the odds in their favor - attack before Iran even knew what was happening - and that Iran would be so surprised and shaken they would capitulate
Pepe said as I recall - Israel wiped out Iran with the first attack, including computer systems, and it took Russia assistance and computer specialists to get Iran's computers back online.
I don't know I guess we will never know, but I guess there is hope the Trump was against it and now his debt to Adelson is paid and he can do what he wants now. I am hoping.
=
.
But then that hope for the future fades quickly when you think about Trump threating assassination of the Supreme Religious Leader and legitimizing terror and assassination as acceptable acts - Now we call Terrorist Act of Cell phones blowing up clever - Hiding drones in Trucks, Smart - They are setting new and horrific standards of war
When you cannot win on the battlefield Ukraine Isreal they quickly turn to terrorism - and the US media and press call it clever and applaud it
That should concern everyone
. So who knows - I imagine the Trump administration is as confused as we are.
.
Bob Scheer talking with Ray McGovern. Twice, thrice, a fourth time, Scheer cannot take it in that Iranians are not third-world incompetent, against "vastly superior West/Israel." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P62UuMa0FlQ
Before Khomeini revolution, Iranians were the largest cohort in US engineering graduate programs. Much of that stopped abruptly -- no more Iranian govt money to USA. But in Iran, brighter students attend university tuition-free. From a population of 90 million, lots of raw brain power available. Women are the majority of STEM graduates -- with or without hijab.
agreed
when Iran US sought to assassinate Iranian nuclear scientists Iran possibly had as many as 2,000 to 5,000 candidates ready to take their places
meaningless assassination is simply terrorism, not clever and not smart
setting this precedent as acceptable military action is a tremendous error by the US for future generations
Trump has said he ' Saved Israel'
whether he started the war or not - which I believe he did start it
meaning US supplied weapons intelligence the Ruse of negotiations
he did Save Israel boy they were getting a whooping
. Not saying Iran did not have damages but Iran is used to that
Israel had this false belief the Iron Dome would save them
sheer panic now
Am I the only one who would like to see a site or dashboard with realtime Iraeli emigration stats?
Iran cannot afford to dance with Israel by pulling its punches and hoping for sanity to arise. If, or when, Netanyahu strikes again, Iran should respond by fully shutting down Israel's national energy supply facilities. Target the distillation units in both of Israel's main refineries and the turbine rooms of all its major power generation stations. These are unrecoverable loses in the near and medium term, and will trigger a major civilian revolt against the current Israeli government. Israel's economy would immediately grind to a halt and a mass exodus will follow. The models show that this solution produces the least harm to all and fundamentally changes the paradigm in the Middle East. Whatever rump state is allowed to form in Ukraine may become the new homeland for the nearly 2 million Russian Jews currently living in Israel.
Israel is out of interceptor missiles for its Iron Dome and given its single source, it is going to be awhile before they have substantially more. If they engage Iran or its allies before they have substantially more, they are all likely to look like Gaza before their opponents run out of ammo. It is my understanding that the same source supplies the Ukraine and Israel in separate production runs, so both are likely to find ceasefire more survivable than engagement for some time.
Iron dome is currently made in Israel, and not used in Ukraine.
Thaad was used by the U.S., I read 25% of all, and has low production. Made in U.S. same As Patriot.
https://www.thedailyjagran.com/world/what-is-thaad-80-interceptors-used-in-12-days-to-stop-irans-ballistic-threat-on-israel-all-about-this-billiondollar-shield-10248679
Iron Dome's interceptors are American made, just as the Ukraine's.
American makers have not scaled up as quickly as Russia's have, and Russia is outproducing all of the NATO countries combined including the US.
Oh lord. Is that another motivation for their genocide of Gaza--to suppress the local resistance rockets, anticipating that a strike on Iran would take their stock of interceptors to carry out?
Apologies if I am late to the realization on this. I haven't seen anyone mention it in just that way.
The munitions coming out of Gaza are negligible.
Israel wants the Gazans out of Gaza so they can mine the natural gas sitting underneath Gaza, which would conflict with Trump's casinos.
That is one motivation yes. See how I said "another"? Also I'm not sure they are negligible. Not if Israel believes the Palestinians have backing from other countries, and Israel as a state act traumatized by every single Palestinian rocket that lands. They do achieve damage now and again even with the "iron dome".
The best that Hamas can do is assemble the smuggled parts of primitive missiles into working ones. They are the easiest ones for the Iron Dome to intercept. If the IDF could stop weapons, they could stop food and water.
The iron dome relies on rockets. If Israel planned to go after Iran perhaps they wanted their western side not firing rockets. Yes bigger professional missiles do more damage. So? You think they wanted to be in a position of preserving defensive arms to deal with Iran with an active source of explosives at their rear, and it's fine because not many get through when they can expend all the defensive weapons they want? I'm not seeing your point. Are you seeing mine?
What is the difference between rockets and missiles, in your opinion?
The effectiveness of Israel's defensive systems has been reduced from the much ballyhooed 90% to 50% by Iran's adoption of more sophisticated missiles, which they are increasing the inventory of much faster than Israel is increasing their inventory of interceptors.
One person's policy difference is another person's abuse.
Given that federal court judges can communicate better than the Borg, they are likely to circle the wagons and negate the SCOTUS's opinion with independent action.