Is there any possibility that Russia is behind the power grid, railway, agro business "accidents" here in the US. After the Nordstrom and the Crimean Bridge, no doubt, we deserve whatever Russia chooses to do to us, still, it makes you wonder. Russia will not blab, if they are.
Ukraine has some fairly capable special operations forces, and they have Russian speakers. Given the CIA's past track record for operations inside Russia, which is very much a non-permissive environment, I wouldn't bet a plugged ruble on any of this being true.
That’s what is so challenging is when both sides use disinformation to the press. Russian model is release true information, but include lies sprinkled in the information.
Tweet hypothesizing there is an environmental group in the us conducting sabotage.
Read in particular the thread by Anne Junod. Yes, it could have been sabotage, and there is some discussion of this, but in my personal opinion that's not what happened. If I'm wrong, it won't be the first time.
I just don’t see the CIA being competent enough to do anything like this, without being caught. I can see them trying, and using mi6, Ukrainians, and Polish as cut outs. Or trying to take credit for something they have zero involvement with.
Given where we are today, shouldn't we consider whether former Special Forces operative Murphy's claims are (or are not) another shiny object to distract us while other stuff is happening outside our notice. I think it has come to this.
It has definitely "come to this." When I first encountered Murphy's piece back in December, I didn't share it because I had no way of assessing its veracity or agenda (or, ideally, lack thereof). Since we've gotten to the point in our society where a total loss of credibility is no longer fatal to a career or social standing so long as the "winning" agenda is pursued, the once-handy (but, admittedly, never failsafe) markers of "a decorated US Marine would never say that..." or "our government could never do that without X, Y and Z" have completely disappeared. The utter lack of these traditional strictures exponentially increases the burden on even the most-discerning consumer of information to figure out which of our once-esteemed officials or institutions is outright lying to us.
Not sure whether Mark or a commenter has mentioned this yet, but Lee Smith (who I think has a great deal of credibility based on his reporting of the various Trump-related false reports 2016-2020) has published a piece highly critical of Seymour Hersh's reporting on the Nord Stream blowups. See: https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/sy-hersh-swings-big-misses-lee-smith.
I've read Hersh's report, which seems quite credible, and I've read Smith's. Who ya gonna believe?
Smith finds numerous problems with Hersh's sole source account. But he doesn't answer the question who then did blow up the pipelines. Best I can tell he suggests the Ukrainians might have done it. I would agree that next to the USA the Ukrainians probably have the best motive for the blowup. Apparently Ukraine loses millions of dollars when gas is shipped from Russia to Germany by ocean pipeline, bypassing the transit fees Ukraine can charge for overland transit. But, at this stage of the game, why would Russia ever pay Ukraine transit fees anyway?
It's fair to question the motives and selectiveness of Hersh's source, but the facts line up pretty well.
And the lifting of sanctions would have been an easy negotiating concession by the US if we already knew we were going to take out the subject of the sanctions.
I didn't respond to the original comment that brought up the Smith article simply because both the comment and the article were so shallow. I'm pleased that so many other commenters appear to "get it."
I would add that, in addition to MoA, another voice supporting the obvious fact that Hersh is largely--even if not entirely in all details--correct about the big picture that the US engaged in a terror attack of a momentous nature, is that of Jeffrey Sachs. I'm pretty sure I quoted Sachs recently in this regard when he appeared on The Duran. Sachs is certainly super well connected, an insider. While I'm quite sure that I disagree fundamentally with Sachs in many ways--just as is the case with Hersh--I hope I'm mature enough to recognize when even people I otherwise disagree with are onto a pretty undeniable reality.
You left two things out: 1) I cited not only MoA but Jeffery Sachs, as well. There are more well informed observers who came to the same conclusions. The criticism of Hersh for using anonymous sources in this situation is, indeed, shallow. 2) I included Smith's article in the charge of shallowness, as I explained in more detail when responding to Cassander. Other commenters have pointed out that Smith is likely to have an axe to grind with regard to Hersh, as his selective criticisms of Hersh's past tend to indicate. The idea that Hersh was bolstering Zhou is ridiculous.
In large part, I’d side with Hersh, but noting that he’s only as good as his sources. If a source wanted to get the gist out, but misdirect from, say, UK or Polish involvement, I’ll forgive that. Smith offers nothing substantive in rebuttal. Hersh did give an interview with Berliner Zeitung today, so let’s see how the facts shake out under increased uproar and scrutiny.
I would suggest that Smith's reasoning is basically circular and ad hominem. The circular part comes from his fundamental reasoning error in maintaining that lifting the NS2 sanctions is proof that--no matter what else Zhou and Nuland said or did--they would never have sabotaged the pipeline. He uses that supposed proof, which others have addressed, to dismiss everything Hersh says and to avoid addressing the obvious question: If not the US, then who? For the rest he selectively picks out certain of Hersh's past mistakes while ignoring his history of good reporting.
The Russian army is highly dependent on rail for its logistics, to the point that it's a potential vulnerability, so the Ukrainians might well try to go after the Russian rail net assuming they can get at it. On the other hand, the Russians take internal security very seriously indeed, and agents operating inside Russia have come to grief many times. Neither side is going to be able to be very candid about how they're doing in a secret war. The details about sabotage or agent operations in World War II didn't emerge until many years after it was over.
I have no trouble believing that the Ukrainians have tried it, or that they have had some successes, or that some of the ones who have tried it got nailed.
I don't think Russian railroads are in the kind of sorry shape that ours are. I've been reading up on the Ohio situation, and I found a thread by someone who actually knows something about railroads and the current state of ours. Jesus wept. Russian railroads have to actually be sabotaged. Ours just sort of produce disasters on their own.
EDIT: I will leave it to you to imagine the improvements in our rail system that could be made and the accidents that could be avoided for ten percent of what has been spent in Ukraine.
Yes, this type of sabotage--attacks on railways--can be attempted with relatively low level recruits with a Russian background--possibly Ukrainian, Polish, or other. However, to create and maintain "sleeper cells" over a period of more than 5 years requires a more sophisticated infrastructure that can elude Russian security forces. Communication becomes a very major problem, for example. This means that there must be serious state support for such operations that are targeting energy infrastructure like pipelines inside Russia.
2nd half of Garland Nixon's show tonight (Wed) is well worth the watch. Describes a picture of this being "1st base" and if the IC doesn't see the pushback against the 4 administration clowns, there will be more pressure. So, could be bluster. But I heard Scholtz's party who had won elections in Berlin since the early 90s suffered a defeat over the weekend.
Leftists / foundations use funding / money to “guide”speech in the “non profit” world.
Another example is how no Black organization dares says anything negative on illegal immigration, even if their constituents are pissed. Same thing about school choice.
Macgregor keeps bringing up Russians and Chinese at the border when he's asked about the balloon. And it's a legit point. If you already have 100 spy satellites targeting the US, would you rather add a balloon or a bunch of human agents coming in?
OTOH, the AK-47 seems gudenuf for what is intended...
I've also flown on a lot of gudenuf Antonovs, when Western aircraft would have had more difficulty.
The above is to say, generally, that while Russian stuff may be engineered to the gudenuf standard (which may not be good enough in all cases), the Western or American gold-plated, over-engineered standard, also has drawbacks.
Is there any possibility that Russia is behind the power grid, railway, agro business "accidents" here in the US. After the Nordstrom and the Crimean Bridge, no doubt, we deserve whatever Russia chooses to do to us, still, it makes you wonder. Russia will not blab, if they are.
Remarkable that the confounding question is whether it’s Russian sabotage or our own.
Ukraine has some fairly capable special operations forces, and they have Russian speakers. Given the CIA's past track record for operations inside Russia, which is very much a non-permissive environment, I wouldn't bet a plugged ruble on any of this being true.
That’s what is so challenging is when both sides use disinformation to the press. Russian model is release true information, but include lies sprinkled in the information.
Tweet hypothesizing there is an environmental group in the us conducting sabotage.
https://mobile.twitter.com/DC_Draino/status/1625519646177730561?cxt=HHwWgoC93a_ggI8tAAAA
Well, maybe. My opinion is that this was some combination of rotten infrastructure and negligence.
https://twitter.com/maphumanintent/status/1626233052350529537
Read in particular the thread by Anne Junod. Yes, it could have been sabotage, and there is some discussion of this, but in my personal opinion that's not what happened. If I'm wrong, it won't be the first time.
IDK. Can’t wrap my head around such sophisticated coordination between NATO spies and the CIA using sleeper cells.
My version of plausible deniability.
I just don’t see the CIA being competent enough to do anything like this, without being caught. I can see them trying, and using mi6, Ukrainians, and Polish as cut outs. Or trying to take credit for something they have zero involvement with.
I agree Ray.
Given where we are today, shouldn't we consider whether former Special Forces operative Murphy's claims are (or are not) another shiny object to distract us while other stuff is happening outside our notice. I think it has come to this.
It has definitely "come to this." When I first encountered Murphy's piece back in December, I didn't share it because I had no way of assessing its veracity or agenda (or, ideally, lack thereof). Since we've gotten to the point in our society where a total loss of credibility is no longer fatal to a career or social standing so long as the "winning" agenda is pursued, the once-handy (but, admittedly, never failsafe) markers of "a decorated US Marine would never say that..." or "our government could never do that without X, Y and Z" have completely disappeared. The utter lack of these traditional strictures exponentially increases the burden on even the most-discerning consumer of information to figure out which of our once-esteemed officials or institutions is outright lying to us.
Not sure whether Mark or a commenter has mentioned this yet, but Lee Smith (who I think has a great deal of credibility based on his reporting of the various Trump-related false reports 2016-2020) has published a piece highly critical of Seymour Hersh's reporting on the Nord Stream blowups. See: https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/sy-hersh-swings-big-misses-lee-smith.
I've read Hersh's report, which seems quite credible, and I've read Smith's. Who ya gonna believe?
Smith finds numerous problems with Hersh's sole source account. But he doesn't answer the question who then did blow up the pipelines. Best I can tell he suggests the Ukrainians might have done it. I would agree that next to the USA the Ukrainians probably have the best motive for the blowup. Apparently Ukraine loses millions of dollars when gas is shipped from Russia to Germany by ocean pipeline, bypassing the transit fees Ukraine can charge for overland transit. But, at this stage of the game, why would Russia ever pay Ukraine transit fees anyway?
So...who is spinning who is spinning who?
Hersh's reporting merely confirms what Moon of Alabama reported from open sources shortly after the bombings:
https://www.moonofalabama.org/2022/09/whodunnit-facts-related-to-the-sabotage-attack-on-the-nord-stream-pipelines.html
MoA offered the following additional commentary after the Hersh article:
https://www.moonofalabama.org/2023/02/some-small-corrections-to-seymour-hershs-new-nord-stream-revelations.html#more
It's fair to question the motives and selectiveness of Hersh's source, but the facts line up pretty well.
And the lifting of sanctions would have been an easy negotiating concession by the US if we already knew we were going to take out the subject of the sanctions.
I didn't respond to the original comment that brought up the Smith article simply because both the comment and the article were so shallow. I'm pleased that so many other commenters appear to "get it."
I would add that, in addition to MoA, another voice supporting the obvious fact that Hersh is largely--even if not entirely in all details--correct about the big picture that the US engaged in a terror attack of a momentous nature, is that of Jeffrey Sachs. I'm pretty sure I quoted Sachs recently in this regard when he appeared on The Duran. Sachs is certainly super well connected, an insider. While I'm quite sure that I disagree fundamentally with Sachs in many ways--just as is the case with Hersh--I hope I'm mature enough to recognize when even people I otherwise disagree with are onto a pretty undeniable reality.
You left two things out: 1) I cited not only MoA but Jeffery Sachs, as well. There are more well informed observers who came to the same conclusions. The criticism of Hersh for using anonymous sources in this situation is, indeed, shallow. 2) I included Smith's article in the charge of shallowness, as I explained in more detail when responding to Cassander. Other commenters have pointed out that Smith is likely to have an axe to grind with regard to Hersh, as his selective criticisms of Hersh's past tend to indicate. The idea that Hersh was bolstering Zhou is ridiculous.
In large part, I’d side with Hersh, but noting that he’s only as good as his sources. If a source wanted to get the gist out, but misdirect from, say, UK or Polish involvement, I’ll forgive that. Smith offers nothing substantive in rebuttal. Hersh did give an interview with Berliner Zeitung today, so let’s see how the facts shake out under increased uproar and scrutiny.
I would suggest that Smith's reasoning is basically circular and ad hominem. The circular part comes from his fundamental reasoning error in maintaining that lifting the NS2 sanctions is proof that--no matter what else Zhou and Nuland said or did--they would never have sabotaged the pipeline. He uses that supposed proof, which others have addressed, to dismiss everything Hersh says and to avoid addressing the obvious question: If not the US, then who? For the rest he selectively picks out certain of Hersh's past mistakes while ignoring his history of good reporting.
Reckless + feckless = The Empire of Lies.
One's a tragedy. Two's a coincidence. Three?
https://celiafarber.substack.com/p/outbreak-of-train-derailments-ohio
It may/may be "foreign sabotage" sure, but after the 2020 Summer of Love, I lean toward domestic perpetrators.
Or, I'd be happy to embrace the power of the word, "both."
Define “domestic”. No knows anything
I'd think of "domestic" as being perpetrators directed/funded/enabled in some manner by the deep state, whatever the hell that is.
The Russian army is highly dependent on rail for its logistics, to the point that it's a potential vulnerability, so the Ukrainians might well try to go after the Russian rail net assuming they can get at it. On the other hand, the Russians take internal security very seriously indeed, and agents operating inside Russia have come to grief many times. Neither side is going to be able to be very candid about how they're doing in a secret war. The details about sabotage or agent operations in World War II didn't emerge until many years after it was over.
I have no trouble believing that the Ukrainians have tried it, or that they have had some successes, or that some of the ones who have tried it got nailed.
Russia is very good at quickly repairing rail lines.
Contrast with what is going on in Ohio.
I don't think Russian railroads are in the kind of sorry shape that ours are. I've been reading up on the Ohio situation, and I found a thread by someone who actually knows something about railroads and the current state of ours. Jesus wept. Russian railroads have to actually be sabotaged. Ours just sort of produce disasters on their own.
EDIT: I will leave it to you to imagine the improvements in our rail system that could be made and the accidents that could be avoided for ten percent of what has been spent in Ukraine.
Yes, this type of sabotage--attacks on railways--can be attempted with relatively low level recruits with a Russian background--possibly Ukrainian, Polish, or other. However, to create and maintain "sleeper cells" over a period of more than 5 years requires a more sophisticated infrastructure that can elude Russian security forces. Communication becomes a very major problem, for example. This means that there must be serious state support for such operations that are targeting energy infrastructure like pipelines inside Russia.
2nd half of Garland Nixon's show tonight (Wed) is well worth the watch. Describes a picture of this being "1st base" and if the IC doesn't see the pushback against the 4 administration clowns, there will be more pressure. So, could be bluster. But I heard Scholtz's party who had won elections in Berlin since the early 90s suffered a defeat over the weekend.
General reminder. Zhou’s not in charge. He is subservient to the NeoCons.
Right. At the end of the day someone is paying for all this.
As a train fan I can tell you that derailments are a weekly occurrence. This one was just unlucky on the chemical tanker.
And cuts to maintenance, along with increased train size. 28% decrease in staffing. Train was 150 cars long.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ohio-train-derailment-east-palestine-norfolk-southern-excess-size/
https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/norfolk-southern-eliminated-key-maintenance-role-derailment-region-union-says
And major investors in train line included Blackrock and vanguard.
Someone yesterday suggested that being on Big ESG's payroll was the reason why we haven't heard 5 million "how DARE you!"(s) from Greta by now.
Leftists / foundations use funding / money to “guide”speech in the “non profit” world.
Another example is how no Black organization dares says anything negative on illegal immigration, even if their constituents are pissed. Same thing about school choice.
Macgregor keeps bringing up Russians and Chinese at the border when he's asked about the balloon. And it's a legit point. If you already have 100 spy satellites targeting the US, would you rather add a balloon or a bunch of human agents coming in?
Remember Three Mile Island ... and the Thresher.
OTOH, the AK-47 seems gudenuf for what is intended...
I've also flown on a lot of gudenuf Antonovs, when Western aircraft would have had more difficulty.
The above is to say, generally, that while Russian stuff may be engineered to the gudenuf standard (which may not be good enough in all cases), the Western or American gold-plated, over-engineered standard, also has drawbacks.