Ukraine was just the willing fool who took the bait
" The Partnership for Peace "
"...the combination of manpower from Eastern Europe with the technical capabilities of NATO would greatly enhance the military potential of the Partnership because it would reduce the risk of body bags for NATO countries, which is the main constraint on their willingness to act."
"reduce the risk of body bags for NATO countries, which is the main constraint on their willingness to act"
In 2021, Ukraine was the poorest country in Europe, with a GDP per capita of US $4,835. In 2014, the country’s poverty rate stood at 28.6 percent; by 2016, it had doubled, 58.6 percent. While it has declined slightly in recent years, it remained high at 41.3 percent in 2019.
I believe they thought Russia would be a quick battle, meaning a quick victory
and by example - When China saw Russia fall - China would back down
The opposite happened the veil was lifted for the world to see
It was all planned areas like Bachmut had been planned and built for at least 8 years preceeding
Biden administration thought
we have a fully armed Ukraine
300 billion Russia Central Bank Assets Frozen
Destroyed Nordstream destroyed 40 % of Russian revenue
Sanctions destroyed another 30 % of Russian revenue
And grossly underestimated high quantity and intensity of Russian artillery warfare
US was insanely overconfident; a failure of every presumption
Furthermore, it appear abundantly clear that Ukraine was willing to settle in Istanbul and were told not to and/or lured into fighting I opine US and UK are 90 % responsible for the war, and the foolish Zelensky just was promised the moon and was paraded as a hero and took the bait
Why Zelensky took the bait after seeing the US leave Afghanistan in unknown; simply here is a simpe person who suddently was the hero of the world in terms of media exposure, and he fell for it. A simple fool A simple tool
I remember early during Trumps 1st presidential campaign when he said we should be friends with Russia; that’s when all hell broke loose with the Russian Hoax. In further defense of Trump, his advisers were not telling him the truth (remember the Syrian Envoy bragged how he kept the true number of U.S. troops in Syria from Trump to prevent him from withdrawing them) and the media and FBI labeling him a Russian asset because Russia helped him get elected, effectively tying his hands from making any peace overtures to Russia. He knew it was a lie but saw how effective it was so he couldn’t do anything about it. This time around he’s much better prepared.
None of this is rocker science. Russia's primary objective in negotiations with the US is elimination of the threat of nuclear armed missiles located 5 minutes flight time from Moscow. That's like holding a negotiation with someone who is holding a loaded 45 caliber pistol 2 inches from your forehead. The US would not accept this situation if it were reversed. Trump knows and will comply, but he wants something in return. That is what's being negotiated now. The only losers in this are the Europeans, who aren't getting any of the resource booty they have been scheming for.
Right. The somewhat tricky part is the something in return. Russia has no particular reason to concede a thing, so the something in return will logically--probably--be something added on. Something that signifies good relations, mutual security. Trade deals, nukes deals, whatever.
Ukraine was untouchable until very recently. The graft to the unitary from Ukraine was bipartisan, and Trump only lightly touching it caused his second impeachment. My gut feeling is Trump believed the defensive nature of the weapons for Ukraine. Remember you had the entire Trump is a Russian Controlled Asset, Russiagate, and the Mueller investigation going on during Trump's first term. Plus how Congressional sanctions against Russia in his first term for election meddling.
"My gut feeling is Trump believed the defensive nature of the weapons for Ukraine."
I suspect this is a large part of why Trump has insisted that a war between Ukraine and Russia would have never started on Trump's watch. He may or may not have fully understood the implications of arming Ukraine, but I think you are right that he didn't think he was enabling the Neocons' offensive proxy war against Russia.
I say it was not. I have trouble with people like Shryver who opine on the war while holding a hatred for Trump, it clouds their analysis. He makes a good enough argument and my day is not filled with researching to the depth someone like Shryver has, but I also believe Trump was pretty naive and filled with Hubris as 45. We have all discussed here ad nauseam the absolute maniacal Zionist hatred for Russia (and Trump) and the desire to harm them, steal more of their assets. They've been planning this a long time, and Trump seems caught in the cross hairs through the Russian hoax and we know that his military staff members were not giving him information or holding back information and they used impeachments and lawfare while also running a covid scam to keep him off balance. I think he did things because he trusted his cabinet and staff who never seemed to have his back I think he gives Trump no credit for doing what no one else has done and that is slowing the Neocons down and putting them on their heels while foaming at the mouth.
I’m on board with this as well, I think Trump was naive and did rely on too many people who were anything but loyal and trustworthy.
It seems pretty obvious that he was not prepared for the level of perfidy that he encountered. Having said that, I am convinced that Trump 2.0 is nothing like 45 and he has proven that his domestic game is way beyond these deep state clowns who thought it would be business as usual. SURPRISE!!! I was particularly pissed when Nancy Pelosi opined that Trump wasn’t sophisticated enough to understand what was happening! What an arrogant, insufferable and contemptible wretch she is and as we used to say back in the day, “Goodbye, good luck and good riddance”
While I’m more than pleased with the domestic “war front”, I’m not sure that the President has realized just what a Gordian Knot Ukraine represents and that there doesn’t realistically appear to be any way for the US to extract ourselves from this situation without eating some serious crow. I’m sure that he would like to pull off some kind of a face saving win, but as many here have pointed out, Putin has the luxury of both time and four aces and absolutely no compelling reason to make any concessions.
Going to be interesting to see how this all plays out.
I will be forever stunned by the sheer arrogance and stupidity of the neocons/americans who thought they could just swoop in and plunder Russia like it was Haiti. I was in Russia for a bit after the Soviet Union collapsed. the way the americans acted toward the Russians sickens me to this day. not one bit of empathy for what they had endured under communism.
https://x.com/i/status/1892990169558721024
Sachs speaks
very interesting history you probably know much of it
but he has an incredible mind
The NATO plan = In Writing Quoted:
Ukraine was just the willing fool who took the bait
" The Partnership for Peace "
"...the combination of manpower from Eastern Europe with the technical capabilities of NATO would greatly enhance the military potential of the Partnership because it would reduce the risk of body bags for NATO countries, which is the main constraint on their willingness to act."
"reduce the risk of body bags for NATO countries, which is the main constraint on their willingness to act"
https://www.georgesoros.com/1993/11/01/toward-a-new-world-order-the-future-of-nato/
Toward a New World Order: The Future of NATO
Open Society Foundations, November 1, 1993
George Soros
Noting:
In 2021, Ukraine was the poorest country in Europe, with a GDP per capita of US $4,835. In 2014, the country’s poverty rate stood at 28.6 percent; by 2016, it had doubled, 58.6 percent. While it has declined slightly in recent years, it remained high at 41.3 percent in 2019.
I believe they thought Russia would be a quick battle, meaning a quick victory
and by example - When China saw Russia fall - China would back down
The opposite happened the veil was lifted for the world to see
It was all planned areas like Bachmut had been planned and built for at least 8 years preceeding
Biden administration thought
we have a fully armed Ukraine
300 billion Russia Central Bank Assets Frozen
Destroyed Nordstream destroyed 40 % of Russian revenue
Sanctions destroyed another 30 % of Russian revenue
And grossly underestimated high quantity and intensity of Russian artillery warfare
US was insanely overconfident; a failure of every presumption
Furthermore, it appear abundantly clear that Ukraine was willing to settle in Istanbul and were told not to and/or lured into fighting I opine US and UK are 90 % responsible for the war, and the foolish Zelensky just was promised the moon and was paraded as a hero and took the bait
Why Zelensky took the bait after seeing the US leave Afghanistan in unknown; simply here is a simpe person who suddently was the hero of the world in terms of media exposure, and he fell for it. A simple fool A simple tool
I remember early during Trumps 1st presidential campaign when he said we should be friends with Russia; that’s when all hell broke loose with the Russian Hoax. In further defense of Trump, his advisers were not telling him the truth (remember the Syrian Envoy bragged how he kept the true number of U.S. troops in Syria from Trump to prevent him from withdrawing them) and the media and FBI labeling him a Russian asset because Russia helped him get elected, effectively tying his hands from making any peace overtures to Russia. He knew it was a lie but saw how effective it was so he couldn’t do anything about it. This time around he’s much better prepared.
None of this is rocker science. Russia's primary objective in negotiations with the US is elimination of the threat of nuclear armed missiles located 5 minutes flight time from Moscow. That's like holding a negotiation with someone who is holding a loaded 45 caliber pistol 2 inches from your forehead. The US would not accept this situation if it were reversed. Trump knows and will comply, but he wants something in return. That is what's being negotiated now. The only losers in this are the Europeans, who aren't getting any of the resource booty they have been scheming for.
Right. The somewhat tricky part is the something in return. Russia has no particular reason to concede a thing, so the something in return will logically--probably--be something added on. Something that signifies good relations, mutual security. Trade deals, nukes deals, whatever.
Ukraine was untouchable until very recently. The graft to the unitary from Ukraine was bipartisan, and Trump only lightly touching it caused his second impeachment. My gut feeling is Trump believed the defensive nature of the weapons for Ukraine. Remember you had the entire Trump is a Russian Controlled Asset, Russiagate, and the Mueller investigation going on during Trump's first term. Plus how Congressional sanctions against Russia in his first term for election meddling.
https://ballotpedia.org/Federal_policy_on_Russia,_2017-2018
https://truthovernews.org/p/the-collapse-of-the-zelensky-cult
"My gut feeling is Trump believed the defensive nature of the weapons for Ukraine."
I suspect this is a large part of why Trump has insisted that a war between Ukraine and Russia would have never started on Trump's watch. He may or may not have fully understood the implications of arming Ukraine, but I think you are right that he didn't think he was enabling the Neocons' offensive proxy war against Russia.
I say it was not. I have trouble with people like Shryver who opine on the war while holding a hatred for Trump, it clouds their analysis. He makes a good enough argument and my day is not filled with researching to the depth someone like Shryver has, but I also believe Trump was pretty naive and filled with Hubris as 45. We have all discussed here ad nauseam the absolute maniacal Zionist hatred for Russia (and Trump) and the desire to harm them, steal more of their assets. They've been planning this a long time, and Trump seems caught in the cross hairs through the Russian hoax and we know that his military staff members were not giving him information or holding back information and they used impeachments and lawfare while also running a covid scam to keep him off balance. I think he did things because he trusted his cabinet and staff who never seemed to have his back I think he gives Trump no credit for doing what no one else has done and that is slowing the Neocons down and putting them on their heels while foaming at the mouth.
"I have trouble with people like Shryver..."
Yes. Who cares what Shryver thinks. That was then and this is now. Trump is in control now and he is trying to end the war.
Godspeed, President Trump.
I’m on board with this as well, I think Trump was naive and did rely on too many people who were anything but loyal and trustworthy.
It seems pretty obvious that he was not prepared for the level of perfidy that he encountered. Having said that, I am convinced that Trump 2.0 is nothing like 45 and he has proven that his domestic game is way beyond these deep state clowns who thought it would be business as usual. SURPRISE!!! I was particularly pissed when Nancy Pelosi opined that Trump wasn’t sophisticated enough to understand what was happening! What an arrogant, insufferable and contemptible wretch she is and as we used to say back in the day, “Goodbye, good luck and good riddance”
While I’m more than pleased with the domestic “war front”, I’m not sure that the President has realized just what a Gordian Knot Ukraine represents and that there doesn’t realistically appear to be any way for the US to extract ourselves from this situation without eating some serious crow. I’m sure that he would like to pull off some kind of a face saving win, but as many here have pointed out, Putin has the luxury of both time and four aces and absolutely no compelling reason to make any concessions.
Going to be interesting to see how this all plays out.
I agree as soon as Trump started asking questions about Ukraine, they started Impeachment inquires.
I will be forever stunned by the sheer arrogance and stupidity of the neocons/americans who thought they could just swoop in and plunder Russia like it was Haiti. I was in Russia for a bit after the Soviet Union collapsed. the way the americans acted toward the Russians sickens me to this day. not one bit of empathy for what they had endured under communism.