"There are even suggestions that the US is trying to sponsor a Color Coup or Revolution in Israel."
I can understand people thinking that, but I doubt it's true. The protests in Israel are real, and they would be quite serious even without whatever outside support we may have provided. Honestly, I think the good old CIA never really overthrew that many governments, but that wasn't from lack of trying. Mostly when people accuse America or its spooks of overthrowing a government they're confusing correlation with cause. The Israeli Left is pretty much like the Left any place else and operates on the principle "By any means necessary". Netanyahu's judicial reforms strike at the power of a Left faction that, because of demographics and a lower birth rate, probably can't win a legitimate election for very much longer. They feel cornered and desperate. If Washington could remove Netanyahu, I'm sure it would. I doubt it can, though he may by blunders remove himself.
Hello and Happy Easter weekend AmericanCardigan. While viscerally I find the 'take Zhou out' idea appealing, I'm stuck on "... and, what next?" I believe we agree Zhou isn't running diddly-squat. He is such an epic buffoon that many powerful forces within the US/Western elite alliance (read the money-lines of politically powerful lawyers/clients [deep-state/WEF-aligned banks/NGO nexus; the media, screwy-big tech, and academics are just willing parasites]) must have agreed to his absurd ascendancy. Presently, those powerful forces look to be staying pat on Zhou. Even if Zhou were replaced, until a presidential election (assuming it could be fair), any replacement wouldn't matter much, the deep-state nexus would just keep on keepin' on. Luongo has a compelling "fight-the-regime" theory involving NY bank/market makers and the Fed in alliance to use the reality of our broke-ness (huge debt) to starve the baddies of funds for more nonsense. There doesn't yet appear to be a coherent political cultural answer to "what next". Trump or DeSantis may yet provide that input, but I think it will be in the context of a big financial issue. If the deep-state remains controlling, we will have sustained long-term high inflation (a worst-case outcome, deeply wounding to the free world). If Luongo's theory is right, we have an intense recession that starves us away from anything that isn't a core financial priority, and drives the needed (inter)national dialogue on priorities. In such an environment, a successful businessman (Mr T) has a built-in advantage. Zhou is not even smokey air on window dressing these days. We live in interesting times.
Mark’s had many previous posts about this. Mainly during the Zhou/Pelosi reign. Luongo’s theories are example of how Mark has described the dichotomy of differences. As far as “ who’s next?” No one is.
It seems to me that the info in these leaks should have the party currently in charge in the House of Representatives up in arms and screaming bloody murder. Perhaps they could get off their asses and start impeachment of Zhou, as Mark has labeled him, based on this info.
If #1 false info, won't modify opposite parties positions because they each know the info is fake: only for domestic use (squirrel distraction). In this case the Ukraine war drags on, negotiation channels stay closed. If #2 true info, then you have to consider who exposed the info (who benefits). Zhou regime (white house) is unlikely to be the source, as it results in all partners ceasing to share viable intelligence info - isolation is the result. In adversarial negotiations, a party that knows their opponents positions (and opponents don't know adversaries know) would not give up that info if they felt they could use it to identify their opponents' "accepts" positions. If the adversaries have absolute control (they will win no matter what) and/or feel their opponents are not dealing in good faith, then release of such info signals positional failure/no leverage. That is a 'decide sooner than later' tactic. Who benefits? Four suggestions: A) the US military (hopeless, damaging to other priorities); B) the Russians (get this over with with less loss of life); C) the Ukrainians-that-aren't-beholden (elements of AFU that understand (B)); and D), the wounded EU-states (primarily Germany). I vote for A-thru-D
“The further message [to the U.S. Senate] is, Look, we gave you the information you needed to deal with the Zhou regime and you failed to act. We now reveal the depths of the quagmire and the possibility of further pushback.”
Assuming the leaked documents are genuine, and assuming the Senate “gets” the message and heeds the warning, what could we expect them to do? Are we looking at impeachment, or what? Additionally, considering the current makeup of the Senate, what kinds of things might we expect them to do, if anything?
Speaking of the Senate, cocaine Mitch’s been pretty quiet as he recovers. I doubt he’ll be the same guy when he gets back. Injuries like this at his age make you age twice as quickly. Who’s ready to take his role over?
Yep. He won’t be the same. Saw similar thing happen to my father-in-law who was also 83. His recovery was slow and never fully realized. He succumbed 2 years later a shell of his former self. Seems similar to his old nemesis Harry Reid too.
Regarding the US basically relying on Ukraine information and propaganda... where is the American press in Ukraine. Who can forget the two intrepid CNN reporters cowering under their hotel room desk as the US and Allies set Baghdad afire from the air? Or the famed CNN mobile... the reporter who made it famous later died, can not recall his name. He was pretty likeable actually. LOL maybe he worked for Fox?
Droves of embedded journalists, photo journalists, reporters etc all 'bravely" rode with the troops into the " war zone".
I find the lack of embedded or at least in country MSM reporters quite interesting. Much can be speculated by their absence.
You are spot on. Much has been written and said about the downfall of journalism and their predilection for hyper partisanship. Some in the Obama regime bragged about their efforts to create an echo chamber and rabid journalists who simply repeat the administration line on whatever crisis of the day is being discussed. A key criticism of news departments and journalists is that they do not really practice the sort of embedded in country, honest reporting we used to get from the media. Fewer news organizations have feet on the ground and they rely on AP or Reuters for their reporting.
Sundance at CTH has a different view on who did the leaking and why. Based on who the leak was made to (the NYT's), it is for domestic political purposes - to stir up another Russia mis/dis/mal-information narrative. The reason being, per Sundance: "18 hours before the leak/story construct. Two Russian gremlins, perhaps state sponsored, or perhaps just state aligned, tricked former French President Francios Hollande into admitting the U.S. government and western alliance were behind all of the events in Ukraine after 2014, with the expressed intention to construct a proxy war against Russia using Ukraine." And Sundance then asks how much reporting have you seen by the MSM on the Hollande admission? Zilch. Mission accomplished.
If memory serves and i think i remember Mark writing about this.. Zhou’s unstealthy visit to Ukraine came with an ultimatum. Either get on the offensive soon or we’ll cut you off by late summer.
One of my friends who is still active in the intelligence community voiced surprise that this has not happened sooner given the unrest among some in the rank and file of the intelligence community about the U.S. policy in Ukraine and concerns that the U.S. is stumbling towards an unnecessary war with Russia.
The Duran guys, or least Alex Christoforou are pretty convinced it is fake. Alex rationale being the NYT actually printed it as opposed to circling the wagons and ignoring it. NYT of late though has printed damaging information regarding the Zhou regime.
When I first heard about this my first instinct was that they leaked the docs in order to tie it to Mar-a-Lago. It could work because, even if these were never among the Trump docs we’d never be able to prove it. Everything hidden.
If they did that,however, one could also point out that Hunter and others had plenty of access to Bien’s troves. These were,unlike the Trump docs, not secured. And Hunter has been shown to be the type to sell anything to other countries.
Arnaud Bertrand
@RnaudBertrand
·
Apr 9
The De-Gaullisation of Macron.
- “[We shouldn't] believe we are just America’s followers”
- "Is it in our interest to accelerate [a crisis] on Taiwan? No. The worse thing would be to take our cue from the U.S. agenda [on this topic]"
https://politico.eu/article/emmanuel-macron-china-america-pressure-interview/
"There are even suggestions that the US is trying to sponsor a Color Coup or Revolution in Israel."
I can understand people thinking that, but I doubt it's true. The protests in Israel are real, and they would be quite serious even without whatever outside support we may have provided. Honestly, I think the good old CIA never really overthrew that many governments, but that wasn't from lack of trying. Mostly when people accuse America or its spooks of overthrowing a government they're confusing correlation with cause. The Israeli Left is pretty much like the Left any place else and operates on the principle "By any means necessary". Netanyahu's judicial reforms strike at the power of a Left faction that, because of demographics and a lower birth rate, probably can't win a legitimate election for very much longer. They feel cornered and desperate. If Washington could remove Netanyahu, I'm sure it would. I doubt it can, though he may by blunders remove himself.
Part of the larger operation to take Zhou out. Intelligence sector IMO. Aligned to NYT too.
How about the fallout from Macron’s journey to cuddle Xi? Read it was a waxing. And with Von what’s her name too along as an uninvited freeloader.
3 day shortage of resources causing massive shutdowns at L.A. and Long Beach ports.
Meanwhile new term of the week is “trans age”. We are so broken.
Hello and Happy Easter weekend AmericanCardigan. While viscerally I find the 'take Zhou out' idea appealing, I'm stuck on "... and, what next?" I believe we agree Zhou isn't running diddly-squat. He is such an epic buffoon that many powerful forces within the US/Western elite alliance (read the money-lines of politically powerful lawyers/clients [deep-state/WEF-aligned banks/NGO nexus; the media, screwy-big tech, and academics are just willing parasites]) must have agreed to his absurd ascendancy. Presently, those powerful forces look to be staying pat on Zhou. Even if Zhou were replaced, until a presidential election (assuming it could be fair), any replacement wouldn't matter much, the deep-state nexus would just keep on keepin' on. Luongo has a compelling "fight-the-regime" theory involving NY bank/market makers and the Fed in alliance to use the reality of our broke-ness (huge debt) to starve the baddies of funds for more nonsense. There doesn't yet appear to be a coherent political cultural answer to "what next". Trump or DeSantis may yet provide that input, but I think it will be in the context of a big financial issue. If the deep-state remains controlling, we will have sustained long-term high inflation (a worst-case outcome, deeply wounding to the free world). If Luongo's theory is right, we have an intense recession that starves us away from anything that isn't a core financial priority, and drives the needed (inter)national dialogue on priorities. In such an environment, a successful businessman (Mr T) has a built-in advantage. Zhou is not even smokey air on window dressing these days. We live in interesting times.
Mark’s had many previous posts about this. Mainly during the Zhou/Pelosi reign. Luongo’s theories are example of how Mark has described the dichotomy of differences. As far as “ who’s next?” No one is.
It seems to me that the info in these leaks should have the party currently in charge in the House of Representatives up in arms and screaming bloody murder. Perhaps they could get off their asses and start impeachment of Zhou, as Mark has labeled him, based on this info.
Looks like the evil that has been propagated by the owners of USA is coming back to burn them. Damn, its long overdue.
Could the documents have been hacked by entity outside vs leaked from inside?
Cases in play - 1) false info and 2) true info
If #1 false info, won't modify opposite parties positions because they each know the info is fake: only for domestic use (squirrel distraction). In this case the Ukraine war drags on, negotiation channels stay closed. If #2 true info, then you have to consider who exposed the info (who benefits). Zhou regime (white house) is unlikely to be the source, as it results in all partners ceasing to share viable intelligence info - isolation is the result. In adversarial negotiations, a party that knows their opponents positions (and opponents don't know adversaries know) would not give up that info if they felt they could use it to identify their opponents' "accepts" positions. If the adversaries have absolute control (they will win no matter what) and/or feel their opponents are not dealing in good faith, then release of such info signals positional failure/no leverage. That is a 'decide sooner than later' tactic. Who benefits? Four suggestions: A) the US military (hopeless, damaging to other priorities); B) the Russians (get this over with with less loss of life); C) the Ukrainians-that-aren't-beholden (elements of AFU that understand (B)); and D), the wounded EU-states (primarily Germany). I vote for A-thru-D
Thanks for this great synthesis, Mark. "Normal?" Perhaps this is the new "normal" ...
“The further message [to the U.S. Senate] is, Look, we gave you the information you needed to deal with the Zhou regime and you failed to act. We now reveal the depths of the quagmire and the possibility of further pushback.”
Assuming the leaked documents are genuine, and assuming the Senate “gets” the message and heeds the warning, what could we expect them to do? Are we looking at impeachment, or what? Additionally, considering the current makeup of the Senate, what kinds of things might we expect them to do, if anything?
Speaking of the Senate, cocaine Mitch’s been pretty quiet as he recovers. I doubt he’ll be the same guy when he gets back. Injuries like this at his age make you age twice as quickly. Who’s ready to take his role over?
It appears his injury must have been fairly profound. He was in hospital and rehab for weeks and now is rehabbing at home for more weeks.
Yep. He won’t be the same. Saw similar thing happen to my father-in-law who was also 83. His recovery was slow and never fully realized. He succumbed 2 years later a shell of his former self. Seems similar to his old nemesis Harry Reid too.
Happened to my father at 87.
Regarding the US basically relying on Ukraine information and propaganda... where is the American press in Ukraine. Who can forget the two intrepid CNN reporters cowering under their hotel room desk as the US and Allies set Baghdad afire from the air? Or the famed CNN mobile... the reporter who made it famous later died, can not recall his name. He was pretty likeable actually. LOL maybe he worked for Fox?
Droves of embedded journalists, photo journalists, reporters etc all 'bravely" rode with the troops into the " war zone".
I find the lack of embedded or at least in country MSM reporters quite interesting. Much can be speculated by their absence.
You are spot on. Much has been written and said about the downfall of journalism and their predilection for hyper partisanship. Some in the Obama regime bragged about their efforts to create an echo chamber and rabid journalists who simply repeat the administration line on whatever crisis of the day is being discussed. A key criticism of news departments and journalists is that they do not really practice the sort of embedded in country, honest reporting we used to get from the media. Fewer news organizations have feet on the ground and they rely on AP or Reuters for their reporting.
Sundance at CTH has a different view on who did the leaking and why. Based on who the leak was made to (the NYT's), it is for domestic political purposes - to stir up another Russia mis/dis/mal-information narrative. The reason being, per Sundance: "18 hours before the leak/story construct. Two Russian gremlins, perhaps state sponsored, or perhaps just state aligned, tricked former French President Francios Hollande into admitting the U.S. government and western alliance were behind all of the events in Ukraine after 2014, with the expressed intention to construct a proxy war against Russia using Ukraine." And Sundance then asks how much reporting have you seen by the MSM on the Hollande admission? Zilch. Mission accomplished.
Here's the link for the whole story for those interested in this view: https://theconservativetreehouse.com/blog/2023/04/08/about-that-new-york-times-story-concerning-the-online-leak-of-u-s-military-and-geopolitical-intentions/#more-245306
FWIW, Larry Johnson is not impressed:
Larry Johnson says
8 April 2023 at 01:30
Sundance is talking out of his ass. Does not have a clue.
From the Comments section of the post linked by Mark: (https://sonar21.com/new-leaks-of-u-s-nato-military-intelligence-documents-alarms-washington/).
Both Sundance and Larry Johnson agree they are real.
The disagreement seems to be on the motivation of the leaker.
And a related question is why did the NYT cover the leaks content, verses their usual news blackout of anything unfavorable to the Left / Democrats.
Good thought. My response is NYT was threatened to be cut off if leak not promoted
Possibilities for leak:
1. Way to lull Russia into false sense of security
2. Excuse to delay Ukraine counter offensive
3. Released to move narrative from Ukraine is winning, to Ukraine is in big trouble
4. Internal politics to wake up elites Ukraine war is not winnable
5. Leak ala pentagon papers by disillusioned insider
6. Hack by Russians
7. Internal strike against Biden, so he does it seek re-election.
My bet is on 3 and 4.
If memory serves and i think i remember Mark writing about this.. Zhou’s unstealthy visit to Ukraine came with an ultimatum. Either get on the offensive soon or we’ll cut you off by late summer.
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2023/04/are-the-leaked-military-intelligence-docs-legit/
Are The Leaked Military Intelligence Docs Legit?
One of my friends who is still active in the intelligence community voiced surprise that this has not happened sooner given the unrest among some in the rank and file of the intelligence community about the U.S. policy in Ukraine and concerns that the U.S. is stumbling towards an unnecessary war with Russia.
The Duran guys, or least Alex Christoforou are pretty convinced it is fake. Alex rationale being the NYT actually printed it as opposed to circling the wagons and ignoring it. NYT of late though has printed damaging information regarding the Zhou regime.
I lean that way.
When I first heard about this my first instinct was that they leaked the docs in order to tie it to Mar-a-Lago. It could work because, even if these were never among the Trump docs we’d never be able to prove it. Everything hidden.
If they did that,however, one could also point out that Hunter and others had plenty of access to Bien’s troves. These were,unlike the Trump docs, not secured. And Hunter has been shown to be the type to sell anything to other countries.
I think that angle is being explored on twitter. By Michael Tracy, for example.