My thesis here is that the fact that there is really no significant public disagreement in the collective West with the war on Russia that is backfiring so spectacularly is a sign that the decline of Western civilization from within has proceeded to the point that the forces of dissolution have gained the upper hand—we are now at the point of self demolition.
Points about the destructive limits of the MK 54 are valid, but we really don't know what might have been dropped by that P8. The important point is the very suspicious track of the P8 along the pipeline at the time of the breach when nothing else was in the air at that location. Needs an explanation.
Right. The P8 can carry external munitions, which could be all sorts of things. If so, perhaps there was some sort of beacon placed on the pipelines to allow whatever weapon it was to home in precisely.
I am afraid that the "collective West" is the equivalent of a rabid animal, running wild spreading death to any other unfortunate mammal that it has close contact with. Or alternatively, like cancerous cells that have become immortal, growing unchecked until the entire body self destructs.
BTW, Hudson's comment (from Pepe Escobar) about take-or-pay problem for Germany is moot: force majeure is likely to remove the obligation from the customer to pay due to an "act of God" (or act of war).
Here's a wild thought in which Russia could save the day for Europe (Germany): Russia accelerates the destruction of Ukraine government, negotiates the "carving up" of ex-Ukraine territory with the likes of Poland, Romania, Hungary, etc, but retains protective rights over the existing Natural Gas pipelines running to Europe. These lines, until recently, carried a large portion of the Russian gas to Europe. Russia offers gas to European countries to relieve the hardships caused by the EC. Sounds far fetched, right?
Thank you for summing things up so nicely, but while it is clear that "there is really no significant public disagreement" this does not mean that the public is on board. Our governments are committed in their arrogance and stupidity to a course of action that is disastrous, but the public has not been consulted. We will craft our own solutions as the problems arise, Representative government may be doomed, but humanity is not.
FWIW, in due course I suspect the German people will have a lot to say about the sacrifices they are being asked to make in the name of US global hegemony.
This guy (Konstatin Kisin - twitter.com/KonstantinKisin/status/1575853684852150272) gives what strikes me as a useful summary of Putin's recent speech - one that dovetails nicely with all that Mark has gone to so much (successful!) effort to explicate here. The medium-length thread begins,
"I wish every single person in the West would listen to Putin's speech. Obviously, that won't happen so let me summarise as a professional translator for 10+ years. He states, as he has done from the outset, what his intentions and complaints are in the plainest terms possible."
JC today has a very tidy link to a 2014 interview with Condi Rice that predicts almost exactly this entire Ukraine conflict including the pipeline. These (Deep) State Department goons must have been so frustrated during the Trump years!
I think and hope that the Nato and Davos folks are premature in celebrating the Euroweenies falling back into line. NS or no NS, there is massive hardship coming to us this Europe. That can still get even the most placid sheep off their rear ends.
Again, I stagger in amazement that 40 years after I served in Nato to stop those evil Russians, it's those said Russians who seem like our saviours, and our "own" sides who seems like the axis of evil.
I grew up during the Cold War era when the USSR was enemy number one so it is hard for me to wrap my head around the fact that I am listening to Vladimir Putin in 2022 and thinking, “You know, I agree with a lot of what he is saying.” And then I look at the national embarrassment that is the Capital of this once great nation and think, “You know, I don’t believe anything that they say.”
It’s a sad state of affairs that we have come to, but the fat lady ain’t sung yet!
Things change, and keep changing. Russia is not the USSR. And this country has changed quite a bit since the Reagan era, too.
But none of this is really new. The most eye-opening thing for me has been learning about the origins of communism (also fascism), the groups involved behind the scenes, and their tactics. The entire 20th century starts to make a grim sense. To that end, I recommend Anthony Sutton's work. Know thy enemy.
The MK 54 is a light (very) ordinance weapon, all that is needed to disable/destroy a submarine. However, Sweden (I think) registered a shock of 2.1 on the Richter scale at the estimated time of destruction of NS. MK 54 warhead only has ~45 kg of explosive...
Good point. I was wondering about that, too. The other thing is that the airplane has a range of about 1300 miles. So to get from CONUS to the Baltic is beyond it's range without refueling. One refueling over Poland wouldn't be sufficient. Or so I read.
The range is much longer when traveling from west to east, the prevailing upper level winds are favorable. Example: C-130 traveling from NAS Dallas to Hickam in Hawaii would have make a refueling stop at the west coast, the return trip was made nonstop with the same load.
"...sudden release of massive amounts high pressure gas..."
Gas pipelines operate at or below 1500 psig. That is not really high pressure in a steel pipe. "Massive amounts" is dependent upon the size of the orifice caused by the initial explosion. The gas at above pressure will not cause further degradation of the steel, especially when submerged under water. I don't know the depth, but it is probably several hundred feet in depth (lower pressure differential due to pressure of the water column). Agree that seismographs can detect even small tectonic displacements, but a gas release that likely occured would not cause that. It is more likely that the initial explosion was caused by a bigger detonation than could occur with 45 kg of TNT-equivalent.
2 ) The water depth in the area where the lines were breached is supposedly about 150 feet.
3) Cracks in highly stressed steel pipes propagate at extreme speed from the point of origin, forming petal shapes. A crack originating from a corrosion pit can travel nearly around the entire circumference.
4) Air guns that release at most 8000 cubic inches of 2000 PSI air into the sea are used for seismic oil & gas exploration. An continuous gas release at the sea floor from a 48 inch diameter pipe would produce intense acoustic energy.
We shouldn't get all teary eyes about Putin. He's a classic Russian strongman. However, we have to take what solace we can: he's socking it to the neocons.
What's revealing about it? Meanwhile, the Swedes, the Germans, and Zhou himself all claim it was sabotage. UK papers are calling it sabotage too, and they're totally controlled by the government, at least in all matters Ukraine. But an "overseas oilfield tech" thinks it's poor maintenance?
Is is not possible that claiming sabotage makes it easier to foment the hot passion for war?
Thus far the MO for these people has been poke poke poke. How can we bring this to a head and explode the world?
While sabotage by the interagency might be logical and convenient for them, the occams razor answer might be more likely. Because even if it was accidental it would be hard to prove and much better for the “cause” to claim political malefactors instead.
In the end, in other words, it doesn’t matter. Never let a crisis go to waste. No matter what caused it.
Speaking of Epstein, when are we going to see all the evidence that was gathered? Somebody desperately doesn't want us to know, so I'd guess that the info is not simply of historical interest.
Points about the destructive limits of the MK 54 are valid, but we really don't know what might have been dropped by that P8. The important point is the very suspicious track of the P8 along the pipeline at the time of the breach when nothing else was in the air at that location. Needs an explanation.
Right. The P8 can carry external munitions, which could be all sorts of things. If so, perhaps there was some sort of beacon placed on the pipelines to allow whatever weapon it was to home in precisely.
Are we finally seeing the fruit all those prayers for the conversion of Russia, called for by Our Lady of Fatima over one hundred years ago?
I am afraid that the "collective West" is the equivalent of a rabid animal, running wild spreading death to any other unfortunate mammal that it has close contact with. Or alternatively, like cancerous cells that have become immortal, growing unchecked until the entire body self destructs.
Sounds like the definition of a Fourth Turning to me.
BTW, Hudson's comment (from Pepe Escobar) about take-or-pay problem for Germany is moot: force majeure is likely to remove the obligation from the customer to pay due to an "act of God" (or act of war).
Here's a wild thought in which Russia could save the day for Europe (Germany): Russia accelerates the destruction of Ukraine government, negotiates the "carving up" of ex-Ukraine territory with the likes of Poland, Romania, Hungary, etc, but retains protective rights over the existing Natural Gas pipelines running to Europe. These lines, until recently, carried a large portion of the Russian gas to Europe. Russia offers gas to European countries to relieve the hardships caused by the EC. Sounds far fetched, right?
Thank you for summing things up so nicely, but while it is clear that "there is really no significant public disagreement" this does not mean that the public is on board. Our governments are committed in their arrogance and stupidity to a course of action that is disastrous, but the public has not been consulted. We will craft our own solutions as the problems arise, Representative government may be doomed, but humanity is not.
FWIW, in due course I suspect the German people will have a lot to say about the sacrifices they are being asked to make in the name of US global hegemony.
This guy (Konstatin Kisin - twitter.com/KonstantinKisin/status/1575853684852150272) gives what strikes me as a useful summary of Putin's recent speech - one that dovetails nicely with all that Mark has gone to so much (successful!) effort to explicate here. The medium-length thread begins,
"I wish every single person in the West would listen to Putin's speech. Obviously, that won't happen so let me summarise as a professional translator for 10+ years. He states, as he has done from the outset, what his intentions and complaints are in the plainest terms possible."
A tldr version worth a look.
JC today has a very tidy link to a 2014 interview with Condi Rice that predicts almost exactly this entire Ukraine conflict including the pipeline. These (Deep) State Department goons must have been so frustrated during the Trump years!
https://www.coffeeandcovid.com/p/c-and-c-news-saturday-october-1-2022
Good find - thanks.
He sounds like Ronald Reagan talking about the godless Soviets. The irony.
I think and hope that the Nato and Davos folks are premature in celebrating the Euroweenies falling back into line. NS or no NS, there is massive hardship coming to us this Europe. That can still get even the most placid sheep off their rear ends.
Again, I stagger in amazement that 40 years after I served in Nato to stop those evil Russians, it's those said Russians who seem like our saviours, and our "own" sides who seems like the axis of evil.
Now we know. The Russians love their children too
We share the same biology, regardless of ideology.
For that, I'm thankful.once all is revealed, that biological link is what may save some of us on this planet
I grew up during the Cold War era when the USSR was enemy number one so it is hard for me to wrap my head around the fact that I am listening to Vladimir Putin in 2022 and thinking, “You know, I agree with a lot of what he is saying.” And then I look at the national embarrassment that is the Capital of this once great nation and think, “You know, I don’t believe anything that they say.”
It’s a sad state of affairs that we have come to, but the fat lady ain’t sung yet!
Absolutely. That was pretty much my whole career--Russia, the evil empire.
Things change, and keep changing. Russia is not the USSR. And this country has changed quite a bit since the Reagan era, too.
But none of this is really new. The most eye-opening thing for me has been learning about the origins of communism (also fascism), the groups involved behind the scenes, and their tactics. The entire 20th century starts to make a grim sense. To that end, I recommend Anthony Sutton's work. Know thy enemy.
My feelings exactly. When I went to basic they still referred to the little pop up targets as “Little Ivans”.
For those who might be interested, this is how we probably did it:
https://www.monkeywerxus.com/blog/the-nord-stream-2-pipeline-sabotage
The MK 54 is a light (very) ordinance weapon, all that is needed to disable/destroy a submarine. However, Sweden (I think) registered a shock of 2.1 on the Richter scale at the estimated time of destruction of NS. MK 54 warhead only has ~45 kg of explosive...
Good point. I was wondering about that, too. The other thing is that the airplane has a range of about 1300 miles. So to get from CONUS to the Baltic is beyond it's range without refueling. One refueling over Poland wouldn't be sufficient. Or so I read.
The range is much longer when traveling from west to east, the prevailing upper level winds are favorable. Example: C-130 traveling from NAS Dallas to Hickam in Hawaii would have make a refueling stop at the west coast, the return trip was made nonstop with the same load.
Interesting. Live and learn.
Once the subsea pipeline was ruptured, the sudden release of massive amounts high pressure gas into the water would be detected by seismographs.
"...sudden release of massive amounts high pressure gas..."
Gas pipelines operate at or below 1500 psig. That is not really high pressure in a steel pipe. "Massive amounts" is dependent upon the size of the orifice caused by the initial explosion. The gas at above pressure will not cause further degradation of the steel, especially when submerged under water. I don't know the depth, but it is probably several hundred feet in depth (lower pressure differential due to pressure of the water column). Agree that seismographs can detect even small tectonic displacements, but a gas release that likely occured would not cause that. It is more likely that the initial explosion was caused by a bigger detonation than could occur with 45 kg of TNT-equivalent.
1) The Nord Stream operates at 220 bar, 3200 PSI.
2 ) The water depth in the area where the lines were breached is supposedly about 150 feet.
3) Cracks in highly stressed steel pipes propagate at extreme speed from the point of origin, forming petal shapes. A crack originating from a corrosion pit can travel nearly around the entire circumference.
4) Air guns that release at most 8000 cubic inches of 2000 PSI air into the sea are used for seismic oil & gas exploration. An continuous gas release at the sea floor from a 48 inch diameter pipe would produce intense acoustic energy.
Yes.
And that's another point. Hey, we need a real investigation, don't we?
Very interesting. Above my pay grade. Thanks, Jim.
Monkey is good
We shouldn't get all teary eyes about Putin. He's a classic Russian strongman. However, we have to take what solace we can: he's socking it to the neocons.
Just for context, who would be other examples of Russian strongmen who form the image of a "classic" strongman?
Take your pick of any of the Russian leaders of the last few hundred years.
On American Thinker, Clarice Fledman does an article on poor maintenance quoting LawDog's blog as an overseas oilfield tech. Revealing!
https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2022/10/the_weekly_whodunnit.html
https://thelawdogfiles.com/2022/09/nordstream.html
Truth will prevail, but at what cost?
What's revealing about it? Meanwhile, the Swedes, the Germans, and Zhou himself all claim it was sabotage. UK papers are calling it sabotage too, and they're totally controlled by the government, at least in all matters Ukraine. But an "overseas oilfield tech" thinks it's poor maintenance?
Is is not possible that claiming sabotage makes it easier to foment the hot passion for war?
Thus far the MO for these people has been poke poke poke. How can we bring this to a head and explode the world?
While sabotage by the interagency might be logical and convenient for them, the occams razor answer might be more likely. Because even if it was accidental it would be hard to prove and much better for the “cause” to claim political malefactors instead.
In the end, in other words, it doesn’t matter. Never let a crisis go to waste. No matter what caused it.
Speaking of Epstein, when are we going to see all the evidence that was gathered? Somebody desperately doesn't want us to know, so I'd guess that the info is not simply of historical interest.
Probably see it in 75 years or so ... assuming the Mount of Olives hasn't already been split in two by then.
And Elvis isn’t dead