Just to nit pick Steg...I don't think the 4 territories and neutrality is 'as good as it gets'. Its where Russia was at the start of the war. I think Russia's demands, all related to its national security, will be substantially greater.
Hi, Cass. I was thinking more along the lines that it's as good as it gets for Ukraine and the neocons, not for Russia. If the West agrees to a ceasefire, then they only lose the 4 regions. If they don't, then they'll lose it all.
Yes. Zhou likes to repeat the gag--no doubt provided by his neocon handlers--about "never bowing to Vladimir Putin." He used that line again in France while talking to Elensky--"you haven't bowed to Putin."
Notice what Putin did not say? He left Odessa off of his list of demands. This is Ukraine’s last chance to retain control of Odessa. If Ukraine continues to reject Putin’s latest offer for negotiations, then Odessa will be the next non-negotiable item on Putin’s list.
I can't believe that Putin would ever conceive of leaving Odessa in Ukrainian hands. If that happened, it would mean the SMO has failed because it allows the neocons to live to fight another day. I'm pretty sure that the Russians have gamed this out. They know the West will reject the offer, and Odessa will end up as part of Russia in the near future.
Same as August 1939 when Hitler verbally offered a 16 point soft ball series of proposals to UK Ambassador Henderson to not go to war against Poland. Then look what happened. At least according David Irving.
As Alex Christoforou pointed out in his daily piece-to-camera 15th June, the Zelensky clique did not even wait long enough to pretend that they'd read a summary let alone the details (on the MoA site btw). A simple reflexive statement of aversion. Which the RF leadership knew would be the case, hence the things unsaid (eg Kherson oblast, Odessa, and quite possibly more). Exquisite timing too.
PVV leader Geert Wilder's nominee for Netherlands migration minister, Gidi Markuszower, fails ministerial security check due to Mossad ties.
Interior minister Ernst Hirsch Ballin previously cautioned Wilders in a letter that the AIVD suspected Israeli-born Markuszower of "sharing information and being under the influence of a foreign intelligence entity."
I have been saying for a long time that someone somewhere thinks all this is acceptable. How or why is another thing altogether…
“We conquered these places. It’s ours.”
Oy vey!
You couldn’t make it up! Surely I have a 🛏️ to go to! 🥱
Agreed about Putin. In effect, he's saying, "This is as good as it gets: take it or leave it." Of course, the neocons will reject it.
Just to nit pick Steg...I don't think the 4 territories and neutrality is 'as good as it gets'. Its where Russia was at the start of the war. I think Russia's demands, all related to its national security, will be substantially greater.
Hi, Cass. I was thinking more along the lines that it's as good as it gets for Ukraine and the neocons, not for Russia. If the West agrees to a ceasefire, then they only lose the 4 regions. If they don't, then they'll lose it all.
Yes. Zhou likes to repeat the gag--no doubt provided by his neocon handlers--about "never bowing to Vladimir Putin." He used that line again in France while talking to Elensky--"you haven't bowed to Putin."
Given the chance he wouldn't mind a sniff of his head though. But the Pope will do for now.
Joe would have hated Obama. He seemed to love bowing to every foreign leader he met.
Larry Johnson:
Notice what Putin did not say? He left Odessa off of his list of demands. This is Ukraine’s last chance to retain control of Odessa. If Ukraine continues to reject Putin’s latest offer for negotiations, then Odessa will be the next non-negotiable item on Putin’s list.
There has been no Russian movement towards Odessa for a while.
I can't believe that Putin would ever conceive of leaving Odessa in Ukrainian hands. If that happened, it would mean the SMO has failed because it allows the neocons to live to fight another day. I'm pretty sure that the Russians have gamed this out. They know the West will reject the offer, and Odessa will end up as part of Russia in the near future.
Yes. Odessa is key to defeating the Global Hegemon's Black Sea strategy. I don't see it ending up in some kind of rump Ukraine.
Seems Austin rejected it almost immediately.
I tend to agree with you in that respect. This may be a sign that he knew full well that his terms would be rejected, as you say.
Same as August 1939 when Hitler verbally offered a 16 point soft ball series of proposals to UK Ambassador Henderson to not go to war against Poland. Then look what happened. At least according David Irving.
As Alex Christoforou pointed out in his daily piece-to-camera 15th June, the Zelensky clique did not even wait long enough to pretend that they'd read a summary let alone the details (on the MoA site btw). A simple reflexive statement of aversion. Which the RF leadership knew would be the case, hence the things unsaid (eg Kherson oblast, Odessa, and quite possibly more). Exquisite timing too.
PVV leader Geert Wilder's nominee for Netherlands migration minister, Gidi Markuszower, fails ministerial security check due to Mossad ties.
Interior minister Ernst Hirsch Ballin previously cautioned Wilders in a letter that the AIVD suspected Israeli-born Markuszower of "sharing information and being under the influence of a foreign intelligence entity."
That doesn't exactly speak well for Geert, does it? He talks big on immigration then wants a double-nationality guy on his team?
Putin: Today, we are presenting another concrete and genuine peace proposal. It is not a temporary truce or ceasefire.
We are not discussing freezing the conflict, but its definitive resolution.
@MilitarySummary
As one old American general said, usually the first offer the Russians make is always the best offer...
But, apparently, in Ukraine they did not hear such a wise statement and decided to refuse Putin’s proposal.
Putin knew that it would be rejected. Now the gloves are slowly coming off.
Be interesting to see what the Russians have in store for the West
Very wise comment.