At one level or another probably a majority of people have become aware that Western governments—using their various forms of media proxies—have been waging determined and sophisticated disinformation campaigns against their subject populations.
In the tweet from StarBoy which Mark includes in his post he says, "So the US admits that for the past eight years, America and its allies have planned and prepared Ukraine for war all along... The US began to supply weapons to Ukraine long before the start of the war - Pentagon spokesman John Kirby on Fox News"
I have a hunch they didn't tell Donald Trump what they were up to...another reason he had to go...
Remember Lt. Col. Alexander Vindman? At Trump's (first) impeachment proceeding he testified, "While my interagency colleagues and I were becoming increasingly optimistic on Ukraine's prospects, this alternative narrative [i.e., Trump's] undermined U.S. government efforts to expand cooperation with Ukraine."
Exactly. That has become crystal clear now. The "interagency" policy of the Deep State that even presidents are not allowed to alter is unalterable hostility to Russia as a strategy--US dominance over the Eurasian landmass as enunciated by the likes of Brzezinski. The tactical aspect to achieving that strategic objective has been a tightening ring of countries around Russia featuring NATO-ization of countries bordering the former Soviet Union and "color revolutions" in former Soviet republics--Ukraine (Georgia, Ukraine, Belarus, Kazakhstan). That is all accompanied by open economic war against Russia ("sanctions") with the increasing threat of military threats--first in Georgia, which Russia defeated, now in Ukraine which is a much larger challenge.
THIS IS WHAT THE IMPEACHMENT WAS ALL ABOUT. Preserving this Neocon policy imperative of subjecting Russia to Neocon rule. Anyone in DC who was unaware of the true dynamics of all this can only have been terminally stupid. I'm frankly puzzled by Trump's failure to understand the enmity facing him.
And, as for Trump's failure to understand the enmity facing him, I agree its puzzling. Perhaps in Trump's ego/narcissism he believed he could actually turn his enemies? Or perhaps he did appreciate the enmity but the breadth and depth of opposition was, as we now know, essentially insuperable?
It has taken me a long time to grasp the meaning & impact of the color revolutions, or that US govt was backing them. It didn't really become clear to me until Jan 6, 2021.
If I, a grocery merchandiser in the rural backwoods, can 'get it' now, just about anyone can. Even if Trump did understand then, a majority of people had to be ready to accept that understanding too.
Lucky us who cannot believe anything "our" politicians tell us. Although I do give Putin credit for speaking the truth just on principle, he is also smart. There are two ways to fight disinformation: one is to put out your own disinformation and the other is to provide the truth. The truth has the advantage of being irrefutable either logically or evidentially and the promise of eventually prevailing in the eyes of the beholder. Advantage Putin. Even so, to have taken this advantage Putin must feel that he is in a strong position with no need for Dezinformatsiya as regards Ukraine or the larger geopolitical issues it implicates.
@Mark, I was wondering what you thought, in retrospect, about the beating of the drum to arm Ukraine in 2014. I have been remembering that Charles Krauthammer was particularly adamant that we needed to send arms to Ukraine. At that time, I believed him. He was highly critical of the Obama Administration's decision not to arm Ukraine. Sample: https://www.politico.com/story/2014/04/charles-krauthammer-ukraine-105742
But I guess "we" did arm Ukraine after all...
In 2014, I also remember reading an honest appraisal by a Ukraine expat of the endemic corruption in the country, at that time incomprehensible to Americans.
I was opposed back then, too. I forget what I was reading, but like you the corruption was already known to me and I guess I just looked at the people who were pushing the coup and realized I had to be on the other side. That led to some reading and research.
Joe Biden couldn’t deal out this much cogency at one sitting if his life depended on it!!
It is a truly sad state of affairs when the only place we can find clarity and a reasonable facsimile of the truth is from the mouth of Vladimir Putin.
Think Biden would ever say that we have a bunch of know nothing nimrods making decisions for this country. Think Crazy Joe would ever tell us that it’s stupid to assume that alternative energy sources are even close to being a viable option as opposed to the use of fossil fuels.
Is Zhou ever gonna tell us that the reason for runaway inflation is because of dumbass “experts” being allowed to make decisions without realizing that the unintended consequences of these policies could prove to be devastating for the United States.
Everybody in the entire world knows that Brandon is a completely incompetent buffoon who couldn’t find a coherent sentence with a flashlight and yet the msm in this country continues to play along with the fiction that it’s “jus Joe bein Joe”.
I’m beginning to see another dimension to the saying that, “those whom the gods would destroy, they first drive mad”.
Agreed! The only problem is that today’s political class seems to have taken his advice literally when he said,”truth is the most valuable thing we have, therefore let us economize it.”😂
Re Brothers in Arms - For many years this was my life anthem, although I never understood quite why. I had come to the conclusion that it was a kind of survivor's guilt - guys my age were going to Nam and returning in body bags, and I didn't - but this rendition being posted here in this thread is bringing me to a new realization: We really are fools to make war on our brothers in arms.
However, the point of the "8 years" is the very real continuity of the "interagency" policy of the Deep State. That interagency combine was also able to defy Obama, before Trump.
As a general rule, isn't it proper to point out just what disinformation is being spewed if one is to accuse another of spewing disinformation? I don't even mean that from a moral or ethical standpoint, but just from one of clear communications.
The epistemological error to me is not in this post or in the comments thereof but in your implicit belief that your accusations require no supporting argument. And if you don't believe that, then why weren't such arguments offered?
Trust, but verify, applies to Putin - especially since his words and actions have been quite straightforward and honest since February.. Distrust and verify applies to US sources.
As Mark has suggested I do more than once in these pages, simply read all that you can find from both sides and listen hard. Then decide for yourself who is telling the truth. My conclusion: I mostly don't believe the US Govt, its 'allies' or its media. I mostly do believe Vladimir Putin.
Putin: "In two years, less than two years, from February 2020 to the end of 2021, the money supply in the United States grew by 5.9 trillion. This is an unprecedented work of the printing press. The total money supply increased by 38.6 percent."
Kestutis of Tampa: "I'm not sure the Putin interview is necessarily a "concrete example" because, as a narrative, it is neither verifiable nor refutable."
In the tweet from StarBoy which Mark includes in his post he says, "So the US admits that for the past eight years, America and its allies have planned and prepared Ukraine for war all along... The US began to supply weapons to Ukraine long before the start of the war - Pentagon spokesman John Kirby on Fox News"
I have a hunch they didn't tell Donald Trump what they were up to...another reason he had to go...
Remember Lt. Col. Alexander Vindman? At Trump's (first) impeachment proceeding he testified, "While my interagency colleagues and I were becoming increasingly optimistic on Ukraine's prospects, this alternative narrative [i.e., Trump's] undermined U.S. government efforts to expand cooperation with Ukraine."
Think about that.
Exactly. That has become crystal clear now. The "interagency" policy of the Deep State that even presidents are not allowed to alter is unalterable hostility to Russia as a strategy--US dominance over the Eurasian landmass as enunciated by the likes of Brzezinski. The tactical aspect to achieving that strategic objective has been a tightening ring of countries around Russia featuring NATO-ization of countries bordering the former Soviet Union and "color revolutions" in former Soviet republics--Ukraine (Georgia, Ukraine, Belarus, Kazakhstan). That is all accompanied by open economic war against Russia ("sanctions") with the increasing threat of military threats--first in Georgia, which Russia defeated, now in Ukraine which is a much larger challenge.
THIS IS WHAT THE IMPEACHMENT WAS ALL ABOUT. Preserving this Neocon policy imperative of subjecting Russia to Neocon rule. Anyone in DC who was unaware of the true dynamics of all this can only have been terminally stupid. I'm frankly puzzled by Trump's failure to understand the enmity facing him.
Yes. And so, seen in this light, Putin's actions since February are all the more understandable. Yet he is the 'madman'.
And, as for Trump's failure to understand the enmity facing him, I agree its puzzling. Perhaps in Trump's ego/narcissism he believed he could actually turn his enemies? Or perhaps he did appreciate the enmity but the breadth and depth of opposition was, as we now know, essentially insuperable?
It has taken me a long time to grasp the meaning & impact of the color revolutions, or that US govt was backing them. It didn't really become clear to me until Jan 6, 2021.
If I, a grocery merchandiser in the rural backwoods, can 'get it' now, just about anyone can. Even if Trump did understand then, a majority of people had to be ready to accept that understanding too.
What a strange world, where the words of Putin, a product of the USSR Intel Community, is more trustworthy than the US President.
Is the matrix just glitching?
Whoever stands in the shadows behind the wooden-headed puppet Biden has the world to which to answer:
"And we have just one world, But we live in different ones"
The eternal fires of Hell are going to be too comforting for the devil commanding this despicable regime.
Lucky us who cannot believe anything "our" politicians tell us. Although I do give Putin credit for speaking the truth just on principle, he is also smart. There are two ways to fight disinformation: one is to put out your own disinformation and the other is to provide the truth. The truth has the advantage of being irrefutable either logically or evidentially and the promise of eventually prevailing in the eyes of the beholder. Advantage Putin. Even so, to have taken this advantage Putin must feel that he is in a strong position with no need for Dezinformatsiya as regards Ukraine or the larger geopolitical issues it implicates.
@Mark, I was wondering what you thought, in retrospect, about the beating of the drum to arm Ukraine in 2014. I have been remembering that Charles Krauthammer was particularly adamant that we needed to send arms to Ukraine. At that time, I believed him. He was highly critical of the Obama Administration's decision not to arm Ukraine. Sample: https://www.politico.com/story/2014/04/charles-krauthammer-ukraine-105742
But I guess "we" did arm Ukraine after all...
In 2014, I also remember reading an honest appraisal by a Ukraine expat of the endemic corruption in the country, at that time incomprehensible to Americans.
https://im1776.com/2022/05/27/servant-of-the-corrupt/
I was opposed back then, too. I forget what I was reading, but like you the corruption was already known to me and I guess I just looked at the people who were pushing the coup and realized I had to be on the other side. That led to some reading and research.
Joe Biden couldn’t deal out this much cogency at one sitting if his life depended on it!!
It is a truly sad state of affairs when the only place we can find clarity and a reasonable facsimile of the truth is from the mouth of Vladimir Putin.
Think Biden would ever say that we have a bunch of know nothing nimrods making decisions for this country. Think Crazy Joe would ever tell us that it’s stupid to assume that alternative energy sources are even close to being a viable option as opposed to the use of fossil fuels.
Is Zhou ever gonna tell us that the reason for runaway inflation is because of dumbass “experts” being allowed to make decisions without realizing that the unintended consequences of these policies could prove to be devastating for the United States.
Everybody in the entire world knows that Brandon is a completely incompetent buffoon who couldn’t find a coherent sentence with a flashlight and yet the msm in this country continues to play along with the fiction that it’s “jus Joe bein Joe”.
I’m beginning to see another dimension to the saying that, “those whom the gods would destroy, they first drive mad”.
Biden was incompetent and hopelessly corrupt long before any supposed diagnoses of dementia...
That's why they selected him!
I thought Putin was at death’s door? Dying from cancer, about to undergo serious surgery. Where did those stories go? Hmm. Misinformation perhaps?
As Mark Twain once remarked,”the reports of my death have been greatly exaggerated.”
LOL. Love Twain. He had such a way with woods
Agreed! The only problem is that today’s political class seems to have taken his advice literally when he said,”truth is the most valuable thing we have, therefore let us economize it.”😂
Re Brothers in Arms - For many years this was my life anthem, although I never understood quite why. I had come to the conclusion that it was a kind of survivor's guilt - guys my age were going to Nam and returning in body bags, and I didn't - but this rendition being posted here in this thread is bringing me to a new realization: We really are fools to make war on our brothers in arms.
Nothing at all - loved it. I was trying to say that the song - both the original by Dire Straights and this one, just resonated in my soul.
However, the point of the "8 years" is the very real continuity of the "interagency" policy of the Deep State. That interagency combine was also able to defy Obama, before Trump.
Biases? Biden? I was against inviting Georgia and Ukraine into NATO back when Dubya was in the WH. This has nothing to do with Biden.
As a general rule, isn't it proper to point out just what disinformation is being spewed if one is to accuse another of spewing disinformation? I don't even mean that from a moral or ethical standpoint, but just from one of clear communications.
The epistemological error to me is not in this post or in the comments thereof but in your implicit belief that your accusations require no supporting argument. And if you don't believe that, then why weren't such arguments offered?
Trust, but verify, applies to Putin - especially since his words and actions have been quite straightforward and honest since February.. Distrust and verify applies to US sources.
As Mark has suggested I do more than once in these pages, simply read all that you can find from both sides and listen hard. Then decide for yourself who is telling the truth. My conclusion: I mostly don't believe the US Govt, its 'allies' or its media. I mostly do believe Vladimir Putin.
Putin: "In two years, less than two years, from February 2020 to the end of 2021, the money supply in the United States grew by 5.9 trillion. This is an unprecedented work of the printing press. The total money supply increased by 38.6 percent."
Kestutis of Tampa: "I'm not sure the Putin interview is necessarily a "concrete example" because, as a narrative, it is neither verifiable nor refutable."