That’s actually good news, in my opinion, because the world that’s ending is their world—the world that the collective West’s ruling class aspires to inhabit. What would be bad news would be if the world inhabited by normal people came down. That would happen if the ruling class adopts something like the
How unpopular will the Ukrainian war become here in the USA as it drags on, with more Palestine, OH versus Ukraine expenditures leading the news. What if the Russians successfully advance and begin to place ultimatums on Kiev and Zelensky - or else face further destruction? What if Biden orders the US military into Ukraine in sizable numbers? How will this most recent USA misadventure affect the upcoming 2024 US election? Can the American MSM pull a rabbit out of its hat again by quashing news stories that cast a negative light on Biden's failed militarism like it did with Hunter's laptop? Somehow, I doubt it with the fall of Twitter to Musk. All the while, a GOP House turning over the receipts of the Biden administration corruption and ineptitude. And finally, with a POTUS who can barely rise with the sun each day to deliver some 'divide America' remarks written by a staff comprised of communists, and no 'pandemic' to offer refuge in a basement.
They thought Russia was the same country as the Yeltsin years that was basically broke, run by an oligarchy, using Soviet era outdated military equipment, with a hollowed out military.
And a professional Western style military built up over years in the Ukraine with Western support would easily bleed Russia dry, and economic sanctions would pressure the oligarchs to ensure Regime change.
Instead you have the West suffering economically, 10x Ukrainian casualties, two Ukrainian armies destroyed, and probably on the cusp of a huge Russian offensive that will make Ukraine landlocked, and destroy a third Ukrainian army.
To think that we are now considering China, the country that owns our political class, is now our mortal enemy is the height of absurdity. Had we not allowed so many NEOCONS to insinuate their way into our security, military and geopolitical decision making is nothing short of catastrophic. If not for their hatreds and need for revenge we could have made resource rich Russia our friend not our enemy. This friendship could have been invaluable in beating back China, the China the USA built out of the wallets of our labor and manufacturing class. The Russia of today is not the Soviet Union and it sought our friendship. The abject stupidity of our leadership class whose short-sighted and greedy quest for wealth, power and rule has put us in an extinction event that is coming closer and closer to reality is more evil than anything the monsters of the 20th century ever concocted.
Addendum: When I use the term NEOCON I should make clear the Con in NEOCON does not mean conservative (or Republican) whatsoever, but rather: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/con
: something (such as a ruse) used deceptively to gain another's confidence
I've argued that Washington never really intended a large scale proxy war between "near peer" opponents. They intended an insurgency in an occupied Ukraine that would cost the Russians more than it would cost us. In other words, they aimed at a Cold War operation, because Cold War is what they think they know. The Cold War has been over for thirty years, and they never got the memo.
I think people's expectations may be running a little ahead of events. The Biden regime may be looking for an out, but I think they're stuck in the Ukrainian tar baby pretty good. It doesn't look like Colonel Fannin will be showing up in Kiev with the tanks any time soon, but that doesn't mean the Biden regime can just walk away because they fear another Kabul. In fact, one of the things that makes them dangerous is that they are probably looking for an opportunity to score a military success to prove that they can actually win a war. I'm not sure where they'll try that. Probably not in Ukraine, but somewhere. (Maybe not Taiwan either as I'm not sure Beijing is keen on invading)
I've seen that theory presented, and it sounds persuasive--initially. But to me it doesn't square with the incredibly dense fortifications built up over eight years in Donbass and with the level of aid provided to Ukraine--making it the most capable army in Europe. My theory is that the intention was to stage a war of attrition, just as as we're seeing now--but with the presumption that that would work against Russia and bring about regime change due to high casualties. This view was predicated on basic preconceptions about the Russian mentality and their military doctrine specifically. As well as underestimating the sophistication of their EW.
Preconceptions. Misconceptions. Mark, you are being kind. These are arrogant imbeciles. They are gratuitously destroying our military, our economy and our social fabric, and worst of all our confidence in the rule of law with examples I read daily. They rule by intimidation. When things go south it will be every man for himself, and fearing the government we will not come together as a country.
Misconceptions there certainly were. We may not agree on what exactly, the Biden people were wrong about, and I think question can't be resolved until we get full access to both sides records. In short, it will up to the historians to answer, not the bloggers. I think a lot of people attribute to the neocons powers of planning and coherent strategy that they don't actually possess. I'm not defending the indefensible, but I honestly don't think they planned this, I think they stumbled into it. History will have the final say on that one. My guess is that they planned an insurgency because they thought they could fight the war without serious cost to themselves. As for the fortifications, Russia had already invaded Ukraine once, so those were logically going to get built whatever the neocons planned or did not plan, and nothing can be read into that.
History is being written, perhaps better said, revised to feed the Russia! Russia! Russia! narrative. Brian Berletic's reporting has 'the receipts' - presented by the NYT, WA Post and others presently existing under the Revisionist History Cord referenced, I think. This isn't 'new' in the Ukraine war, but it's just the current front before us.
If any have not seen that video Mark posted (I encourage viewing the whole thing) more sense may be made of where we are. Regards to all, (WRH)
World War II is what built America, putting 16 million men into uniform and creating the military industrial complex To arm them
Eisenhower warned about the military industrial complex in his farewell speech
The war in the Ukraine as most people have figured out is the military industrial complex keeping itself busy and they’ve been planning it for the past eight years since Crimea
There’s a lot of well-to-do grandparents in all the nations involved watching how this whole mess is evolving thinking that there’s definitely better things to be doing than letting these people take us into these wars
He may be a scholar of sorts, but Intellectually honest is not how I would characterize Kotkin. I've read his stuff on other sites as I do not read Free Beacon due to their NEOCON views, but he bored me with his need to denigrate Trump whenever the chance presented itself.
You are correct as well. As I noted below that JJ was correct to suggest he panders to his audience hence the lack of clarity. It's anyone's guess if his audience is capable of assessing the reality of our situation and the foolishness of this Western war on Russia. My guess is they don't. I note the pattern in the conflicts you cite. We piss away blood and treasure only to capitulate and then slinking away believing we still possess the moral high ground.
Robert, you are spot on. One of the attributes of those of us who are not progressives is the ability to modify our positions because we rely on facts and common sense to guide us to the truth. Progressives despise the truth as it gets in the way of their fantasy ideology and thinking for themselves is hard to do.. Yes, we the people are unwillingly abetting this insanity.
Most of the article talks about Russia losing badly while Ukraine valiantly carries on. He says that Putin at this point is going around smashing things out of frustration he can’t have what he wants. Then he says neither side can actually win, and Ukraine should give up a smidgen of land and accept a Korea-like DMZ so Russia will stop bothering everyone.
I _think_ he understands at least some of reality and is suggesting a way off the ledge without offending the New Yorker’s loyal readership. The article is so full of distortion, quarter-truths, copium and outright lies it’s hard to get through, BUT maybe that is the only way to get a tiny bit of truth out to those buried in the fantasy our once-great nation spews forth.
Right off the bat Kotkin writes, “One year into [Ukraine’s] fight for its existence against Russia’s aggression…” Please. Kotkin may not be as rabidly anti-russian as others in the ivory tower commentariat, but he’s just as dishonest. This is not a war of Russian aggression.
He knows better. He also knows that the modern Ukrainian state, nationality, and even language are creatures of the Soviet regime. For a real eye-opening discussion of Ukraine’s history listen to this:
Does he know better? I think not. I believe he is in total NEOCON alignment and his stature gives his essays a sort of legitimacy despite the distortions. I think JJ above nails it when he suggests he is writing for his audience. I believe they call this pandering and propaganda.
So, looking ahead.
How unpopular will the Ukrainian war become here in the USA as it drags on, with more Palestine, OH versus Ukraine expenditures leading the news. What if the Russians successfully advance and begin to place ultimatums on Kiev and Zelensky - or else face further destruction? What if Biden orders the US military into Ukraine in sizable numbers? How will this most recent USA misadventure affect the upcoming 2024 US election? Can the American MSM pull a rabbit out of its hat again by quashing news stories that cast a negative light on Biden's failed militarism like it did with Hunter's laptop? Somehow, I doubt it with the fall of Twitter to Musk. All the while, a GOP House turning over the receipts of the Biden administration corruption and ineptitude. And finally, with a POTUS who can barely rise with the sun each day to deliver some 'divide America' remarks written by a staff comprised of communists, and no 'pandemic' to offer refuge in a basement.
Okay, I'm done venting...
John McCain’s Russia quote reflects the neocon thinking:
“A Gas Station Run by a Mafia That Is Masquerading as a Country”
https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/news/john-mccain-calls-russia-gas-station-run-mafia-145800534.html
They thought Russia was the same country as the Yeltsin years that was basically broke, run by an oligarchy, using Soviet era outdated military equipment, with a hollowed out military.
And a professional Western style military built up over years in the Ukraine with Western support would easily bleed Russia dry, and economic sanctions would pressure the oligarchs to ensure Regime change.
Instead you have the West suffering economically, 10x Ukrainian casualties, two Ukrainian armies destroyed, and probably on the cusp of a huge Russian offensive that will make Ukraine landlocked, and destroy a third Ukrainian army.
To think that we are now considering China, the country that owns our political class, is now our mortal enemy is the height of absurdity. Had we not allowed so many NEOCONS to insinuate their way into our security, military and geopolitical decision making is nothing short of catastrophic. If not for their hatreds and need for revenge we could have made resource rich Russia our friend not our enemy. This friendship could have been invaluable in beating back China, the China the USA built out of the wallets of our labor and manufacturing class. The Russia of today is not the Soviet Union and it sought our friendship. The abject stupidity of our leadership class whose short-sighted and greedy quest for wealth, power and rule has put us in an extinction event that is coming closer and closer to reality is more evil than anything the monsters of the 20th century ever concocted.
The lessons of Ukraine will see Taiwan taken without a shot fired.
You may be right. The stench of the cut and run operation that ended our (mis)adventure in Afghanistan does portend another debacle WRT Taiwan.
What we’re seeing is the legacy of the Dallas Brothers, who under Eisenhower control the state department & the CIA
That’s supposed to be DULLES brothers
Addendum: When I use the term NEOCON I should make clear the Con in NEOCON does not mean conservative (or Republican) whatsoever, but rather: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/con
: something (such as a ruse) used deceptively to gain another's confidence
also : a confidence game : swindle
Or Huckster.
I've argued that Washington never really intended a large scale proxy war between "near peer" opponents. They intended an insurgency in an occupied Ukraine that would cost the Russians more than it would cost us. In other words, they aimed at a Cold War operation, because Cold War is what they think they know. The Cold War has been over for thirty years, and they never got the memo.
I think people's expectations may be running a little ahead of events. The Biden regime may be looking for an out, but I think they're stuck in the Ukrainian tar baby pretty good. It doesn't look like Colonel Fannin will be showing up in Kiev with the tanks any time soon, but that doesn't mean the Biden regime can just walk away because they fear another Kabul. In fact, one of the things that makes them dangerous is that they are probably looking for an opportunity to score a military success to prove that they can actually win a war. I'm not sure where they'll try that. Probably not in Ukraine, but somewhere. (Maybe not Taiwan either as I'm not sure Beijing is keen on invading)
I've seen that theory presented, and it sounds persuasive--initially. But to me it doesn't square with the incredibly dense fortifications built up over eight years in Donbass and with the level of aid provided to Ukraine--making it the most capable army in Europe. My theory is that the intention was to stage a war of attrition, just as as we're seeing now--but with the presumption that that would work against Russia and bring about regime change due to high casualties. This view was predicated on basic preconceptions about the Russian mentality and their military doctrine specifically. As well as underestimating the sophistication of their EW.
"Misconceptions" is probably closer to what I meant rather than "preconceptions". Preconceptions that were off the mark.
Preconceptions. Misconceptions. Mark, you are being kind. These are arrogant imbeciles. They are gratuitously destroying our military, our economy and our social fabric, and worst of all our confidence in the rule of law with examples I read daily. They rule by intimidation. When things go south it will be every man for himself, and fearing the government we will not come together as a country.
Misconceptions there certainly were. We may not agree on what exactly, the Biden people were wrong about, and I think question can't be resolved until we get full access to both sides records. In short, it will up to the historians to answer, not the bloggers. I think a lot of people attribute to the neocons powers of planning and coherent strategy that they don't actually possess. I'm not defending the indefensible, but I honestly don't think they planned this, I think they stumbled into it. History will have the final say on that one. My guess is that they planned an insurgency because they thought they could fight the war without serious cost to themselves. As for the fortifications, Russia had already invaded Ukraine once, so those were logically going to get built whatever the neocons planned or did not plan, and nothing can be read into that.
We must agree to respectfully disagree.
They believed their own propaganda and probably watched too many war films were a few special forces guys sort out the baddies.
“Russia had already invaded Ukraine once.”
When was that?
History is being written, perhaps better said, revised to feed the Russia! Russia! Russia! narrative. Brian Berletic's reporting has 'the receipts' - presented by the NYT, WA Post and others presently existing under the Revisionist History Cord referenced, I think. This isn't 'new' in the Ukraine war, but it's just the current front before us.
If any have not seen that video Mark posted (I encourage viewing the whole thing) more sense may be made of where we are. Regards to all, (WRH)
Big wars have played their role in history
World War II is what built America, putting 16 million men into uniform and creating the military industrial complex To arm them
Eisenhower warned about the military industrial complex in his farewell speech
The war in the Ukraine as most people have figured out is the military industrial complex keeping itself busy and they’ve been planning it for the past eight years since Crimea
There’s a lot of well-to-do grandparents in all the nations involved watching how this whole mess is evolving thinking that there’s definitely better things to be doing than letting these people take us into these wars
It’ll be an interesting spring
As was noted in Munich the only guys really smiling were the defense contractors.
He may be a scholar of sorts, but Intellectually honest is not how I would characterize Kotkin. I've read his stuff on other sites as I do not read Free Beacon due to their NEOCON views, but he bored me with his need to denigrate Trump whenever the chance presented itself.
You are correct as well. As I noted below that JJ was correct to suggest he panders to his audience hence the lack of clarity. It's anyone's guess if his audience is capable of assessing the reality of our situation and the foolishness of this Western war on Russia. My guess is they don't. I note the pattern in the conflicts you cite. We piss away blood and treasure only to capitulate and then slinking away believing we still possess the moral high ground.
Robert, you are spot on. One of the attributes of those of us who are not progressives is the ability to modify our positions because we rely on facts and common sense to guide us to the truth. Progressives despise the truth as it gets in the way of their fantasy ideology and thinking for themselves is hard to do.. Yes, we the people are unwillingly abetting this insanity.
I used to think highly of him, which is why I bothered to read this interview in the New Yorker (https://www.newyorker.com/news/the-new-yorker-interview/how-the-war-in-ukraine-ends). It’s full of so many lies and distortions I can’t think where to start; nevertheless, it is fascinating as a study of double-talk.
Most of the article talks about Russia losing badly while Ukraine valiantly carries on. He says that Putin at this point is going around smashing things out of frustration he can’t have what he wants. Then he says neither side can actually win, and Ukraine should give up a smidgen of land and accept a Korea-like DMZ so Russia will stop bothering everyone.
I _think_ he understands at least some of reality and is suggesting a way off the ledge without offending the New Yorker’s loyal readership. The article is so full of distortion, quarter-truths, copium and outright lies it’s hard to get through, BUT maybe that is the only way to get a tiny bit of truth out to those buried in the fantasy our once-great nation spews forth.
That’s one for my reading list. Thanks
Right off the bat Kotkin writes, “One year into [Ukraine’s] fight for its existence against Russia’s aggression…” Please. Kotkin may not be as rabidly anti-russian as others in the ivory tower commentariat, but he’s just as dishonest. This is not a war of Russian aggression.
He knows better. He also knows that the modern Ukrainian state, nationality, and even language are creatures of the Soviet regime. For a real eye-opening discussion of Ukraine’s history listen to this:
https://youtu.be/n0V4Q7OXGmY
Does he know better? I think not. I believe he is in total NEOCON alignment and his stature gives his essays a sort of legitimacy despite the distortions. I think JJ above nails it when he suggests he is writing for his audience. I believe they call this pandering and propaganda.