NOTE: I published a post earlier that doesn’t appear to have been emailed out. If you missed it: Scott Ritter On The Russian Campaign Strategy I just came across an account of another disastrous development from Zhou’s trip to Poland. While much of the world was still agog at the idiocy of Zhou’s espousal of regime change for Russia, at his Don’t Walk Back presser he let drop another bombshell:
Yes, the Polish leadership, of all people, should realize this! Europe as a whole should realize this, too, and that is why I think they will not support a military or economic escalation of the war from this point forward - at least I hope sanity prevails.
In yet another awkward contradiction out of this US administration concerning Ukraine, which at this point seems to come almost daily, the head of US European Command was forced to issue a contrary explanation after Biden on Monday said multiple times that US forces are "helping train" Ukrainian troops in Poland.
This triggered a rebuttal of the US Commander-in-Chief from Gen. Tod Wolters, who also serves as NATO’s supreme allied commander in Europe. On Tuesday Gen. Wolters denied that the US is currently training Ukraine forces in Poland.
"I do not believe that we are in the process of currently training military forces from Ukraine in Poland," the top general told a Senate Armed Services Committee hearing.
What Biden accidentally said was not just that the troops would see Ukrainians, but that they would see Ukrainian citizens in Ukraine, resisting Russian tanks.
Not that they would see something in Poland, as you apparently heard.
His attempted walkback seemed to be based on the hope that viewers hadn't noticed what he said.
It's fascinating thread you started Darek. I wish you would revisit and lay out actual, concrete rebuttals of anything that Mark or others have said, something like a cogent argument with more than just an emotional right hook. I really think we'd all benefit from what you (or what you think Poles) see as the way forward here.
In the meantime, in case you're new to this substack, i point out a few helpful tips. Many of have *zero* loyalty or affection or trust in the Sock Puppet occupying the White House or the lying scumbags who purport to represent us in Congress or the perfidious Pentagon. How's that for emotion?
So most of us are not invested in Ukraine or Russia or the Regime calling itself the US government. So, Poland: look out for yourself. If Polish leaders are stupid enough to follow an obvious degenerate Regime, then you get whatever stupid prizes go with these stupid games. I'm sure most Polish citizens don't favor being a lackey of the Regime, so welcome to the Club of Hostage Citizens. History is only relevant here to the extent that the evil Regime is manipulating Polish emotions with historic hatreds. By all means get some free military hardware while you can, but don't be a dope, Poland, and actually believe *anything * the USG is selling or stick your neck out.
And finally, my condolences for any country that relies upon the US government for anything that matters. The USG has a long and sordid history of betraying every ally who ever stuck out their necks for us as soon as it suited us or a woodchuck looked at us funny. I honestly don't know why anyone would be an ally to the US since 1945. I guess we could say, Hey, join us, we're slightly less terrible than the other guy! (Reminds me of GOP marketing come to think of it).
I'm confused about something (honestly). My in-laws are from SW Poland so we've been following this pretty closely. Didn't Poland hold a tribunal just last fall and ruled parts of EU treaties to be basically incompatible with the Polish constitution? It was basically a challenge to the primacy of European law and was seen by many (granted, mainly by the morons in Brussels) as a defacto threat to the stability of the EU itself.
Assuming you are either from Poland as you imply, where does that stand today? Time will tell if that move - patriotically driven or otherwise - was smart or not. My own opinion is that any move to get out from under the power-mad grips of Davos and Brussels - no matter where you live on this planet - is a pretty smart move at this point in history, all things considered.
But with respect, if Poland's leadership somehow sees the US or EU as 'allies' after the referendum last fall, and subsequent invasion of Ukraine in Q1...that's incoherent at best... so I'm not clear on your point(s).
Let's set that aside and also set aside you appear to be operating under several logical fallacies.
If you're looking for perspectives in this forum that are pro-EU, or otherwise pro-NATO - and/or bluntly, "pro-US Government" given most here have been, as they say "mugged by reality"...I don't believe you'll find that.
Thanks, not a bit surprised the punative response by EU idiocrats.
Just an observation, but part of the Lefts "long march through the institutions" targets the erasing of history.
There are millions of people right there in the EU who don't have enough 'historical background' of their own cultures, let alone regional neighbors, to carry an intelligent conversation. Same is true just about everywhere you go. For sure its true in US as well. While it might initially impede dialogue and deeper understanding,
it certainly has not stopped it.
My suggestion if you're looking for deeper discussion is to add to the thread the historical 'meat' (context) you're wanting to see.
Much of the appeal of this, and many other Substacks is the robust, freely given contributions from visitors: its a critical/vital part of the product and my experience has been it's welcomed by authors and content creators like Mark.
I admit readily to being a coward. I greatly admire your bravado, but in the past it didn't always work out in favor of Poland when fighting the Russkies.
And perhaps I HAVE studied the historical records--as regular readers here are aware--and having done so have come to the conclusions I've expressed. I'm not impressed by the fact that you seem to be unaware that Ukraine is not a NATO member and that We The People of America have no commitment to Ukraine. My point remains--Poland should be looking for ways advance its own interests, not going out of its way to antagonize Russia. It's not about historical grievances, or shouldn't be. It's about what's best for Poland. Doing the bidding of US Neocons is not in Poland's best interest. Beyond that, my advice to you is to grow up.
I understand exactly what the reasoning of the Polish government is--beyond the fact that they hate Russia as much or more than Russians and Ukrainians hate Poles. I've experienced it firsthand. Poland will be receiving M1 tanks and F35 fighter bombers, basically for free, as its reward for cooperating with the US in this proxy war against Russia. None of that hardware would save Poland if it found itself in a real war with Russia. Getting involved in the Ukraine - Russia conflict to the extent that Poland has already got itself involved risks exactly that. It's pointless.
I understand entirely why Poles don't want to be under the thumb of Russia--again. I understand why Poles feel that they're part of the West. But the West as it is will never accept Poland as an equal partner--Poland would be far better off recognizing that fact and instead pursuing initiatives like the Visegrad group. And not issuing threats at Hungary.
As it is, Poland is allowing itself to be used as a pawn by the US government, just as Ukraine is a pawn for the US government. The people in the US government who are pursuing these policies against Russia care no more for Polish lives than they do for Ukrainian lives or, for that matter, Russian lives. For Poland to allow itself to be used like this is shortsighted and foolish an d risks its own future.
As for history and grievances, most of the people surrounding Poland think they have grievances against the Poles: Lithuanians, Byelorussians, Ukrainians, Czechs, even Russians. Some of them have got over that, but the way forward for Poland is not in dwelling on the past nor in dreaming of future military might. For Poland to suggest sending its own troops into Western Ukraine, as they have suggested, as "peacekeepers", is perhaps the height of folly. Perhaps Polish reasoning doesn't extend to the history that makes that such a stupid idea.
The posts on this substack are anything but ignorant.
You took offense at someone having an opinion about whether Poland is behaving wisely and then went on to impute ignorance of history to them. And yet the history you cite showed modern Poland struggling to fight off great powers while being betrayed by feckless American and British elites, the same historical realities cited on this substack as reasons why Poland should be more guarded about it's speech and actions.
Poland is entitled to behave in any manner it deems vital to its national interests. And should Poland pursue a course of national suicide, then outside observers will feel free to remark upon it.
We honor your ancestors for 1683 and your valor in WWII.
Well you're a regular moral and intellectual GIANT, aren't you, insulting God and everybody this way? Poland defeated Nazi Germany all by itself did it? Were the Americans who died liberating Poland not up to your standards? I kneel at your feet humbly oh great one.
Yes, the Polish leadership, of all people, should realize this! Europe as a whole should realize this, too, and that is why I think they will not support a military or economic escalation of the war from this point forward - at least I hope sanity prevails.
Forget it:
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/us-top-commander-europe-forced-rebut-latest-biden-remarks
In yet another awkward contradiction out of this US administration concerning Ukraine, which at this point seems to come almost daily, the head of US European Command was forced to issue a contrary explanation after Biden on Monday said multiple times that US forces are "helping train" Ukrainian troops in Poland.
This triggered a rebuttal of the US Commander-in-Chief from Gen. Tod Wolters, who also serves as NATO’s supreme allied commander in Europe. On Tuesday Gen. Wolters denied that the US is currently training Ukraine forces in Poland.
"I do not believe that we are in the process of currently training military forces from Ukraine in Poland," the top general told a Senate Armed Services Committee hearing.
My guess it depends on what definition of “training” is being used.
This may be another example of the Pentagon pushing back against a fellow Cartel faction that is going too far.
We can but hope.
Mark,
What Biden accidentally said was not just that the troops would see Ukrainians, but that they would see Ukrainian citizens in Ukraine, resisting Russian tanks.
Not that they would see something in Poland, as you apparently heard.
His attempted walkback seemed to be based on the hope that viewers hadn't noticed what he said.
It's fascinating thread you started Darek. I wish you would revisit and lay out actual, concrete rebuttals of anything that Mark or others have said, something like a cogent argument with more than just an emotional right hook. I really think we'd all benefit from what you (or what you think Poles) see as the way forward here.
In the meantime, in case you're new to this substack, i point out a few helpful tips. Many of have *zero* loyalty or affection or trust in the Sock Puppet occupying the White House or the lying scumbags who purport to represent us in Congress or the perfidious Pentagon. How's that for emotion?
So most of us are not invested in Ukraine or Russia or the Regime calling itself the US government. So, Poland: look out for yourself. If Polish leaders are stupid enough to follow an obvious degenerate Regime, then you get whatever stupid prizes go with these stupid games. I'm sure most Polish citizens don't favor being a lackey of the Regime, so welcome to the Club of Hostage Citizens. History is only relevant here to the extent that the evil Regime is manipulating Polish emotions with historic hatreds. By all means get some free military hardware while you can, but don't be a dope, Poland, and actually believe *anything * the USG is selling or stick your neck out.
And finally, my condolences for any country that relies upon the US government for anything that matters. The USG has a long and sordid history of betraying every ally who ever stuck out their necks for us as soon as it suited us or a woodchuck looked at us funny. I honestly don't know why anyone would be an ally to the US since 1945. I guess we could say, Hey, join us, we're slightly less terrible than the other guy! (Reminds me of GOP marketing come to think of it).
I'm convinced Poland needs to develop nuclear weapons of their own. Is this idea at all prevalent amongst Poles?
I'm confused about something (honestly). My in-laws are from SW Poland so we've been following this pretty closely. Didn't Poland hold a tribunal just last fall and ruled parts of EU treaties to be basically incompatible with the Polish constitution? It was basically a challenge to the primacy of European law and was seen by many (granted, mainly by the morons in Brussels) as a defacto threat to the stability of the EU itself.
Assuming you are either from Poland as you imply, where does that stand today? Time will tell if that move - patriotically driven or otherwise - was smart or not. My own opinion is that any move to get out from under the power-mad grips of Davos and Brussels - no matter where you live on this planet - is a pretty smart move at this point in history, all things considered.
But with respect, if Poland's leadership somehow sees the US or EU as 'allies' after the referendum last fall, and subsequent invasion of Ukraine in Q1...that's incoherent at best... so I'm not clear on your point(s).
Let's set that aside and also set aside you appear to be operating under several logical fallacies.
If you're looking for perspectives in this forum that are pro-EU, or otherwise pro-NATO - and/or bluntly, "pro-US Government" given most here have been, as they say "mugged by reality"...I don't believe you'll find that.
Thanks, not a bit surprised the punative response by EU idiocrats.
Just an observation, but part of the Lefts "long march through the institutions" targets the erasing of history.
There are millions of people right there in the EU who don't have enough 'historical background' of their own cultures, let alone regional neighbors, to carry an intelligent conversation. Same is true just about everywhere you go. For sure its true in US as well. While it might initially impede dialogue and deeper understanding,
it certainly has not stopped it.
My suggestion if you're looking for deeper discussion is to add to the thread the historical 'meat' (context) you're wanting to see.
Much of the appeal of this, and many other Substacks is the robust, freely given contributions from visitors: its a critical/vital part of the product and my experience has been it's welcomed by authors and content creators like Mark.
I admit readily to being a coward. I greatly admire your bravado, but in the past it didn't always work out in favor of Poland when fighting the Russkies.
And perhaps I HAVE studied the historical records--as regular readers here are aware--and having done so have come to the conclusions I've expressed. I'm not impressed by the fact that you seem to be unaware that Ukraine is not a NATO member and that We The People of America have no commitment to Ukraine. My point remains--Poland should be looking for ways advance its own interests, not going out of its way to antagonize Russia. It's not about historical grievances, or shouldn't be. It's about what's best for Poland. Doing the bidding of US Neocons is not in Poland's best interest. Beyond that, my advice to you is to grow up.
I understand exactly what the reasoning of the Polish government is--beyond the fact that they hate Russia as much or more than Russians and Ukrainians hate Poles. I've experienced it firsthand. Poland will be receiving M1 tanks and F35 fighter bombers, basically for free, as its reward for cooperating with the US in this proxy war against Russia. None of that hardware would save Poland if it found itself in a real war with Russia. Getting involved in the Ukraine - Russia conflict to the extent that Poland has already got itself involved risks exactly that. It's pointless.
I understand entirely why Poles don't want to be under the thumb of Russia--again. I understand why Poles feel that they're part of the West. But the West as it is will never accept Poland as an equal partner--Poland would be far better off recognizing that fact and instead pursuing initiatives like the Visegrad group. And not issuing threats at Hungary.
As it is, Poland is allowing itself to be used as a pawn by the US government, just as Ukraine is a pawn for the US government. The people in the US government who are pursuing these policies against Russia care no more for Polish lives than they do for Ukrainian lives or, for that matter, Russian lives. For Poland to allow itself to be used like this is shortsighted and foolish an d risks its own future.
As for history and grievances, most of the people surrounding Poland think they have grievances against the Poles: Lithuanians, Byelorussians, Ukrainians, Czechs, even Russians. Some of them have got over that, but the way forward for Poland is not in dwelling on the past nor in dreaming of future military might. For Poland to suggest sending its own troops into Western Ukraine, as they have suggested, as "peacekeepers", is perhaps the height of folly. Perhaps Polish reasoning doesn't extend to the history that makes that such a stupid idea.
The posts on this substack are anything but ignorant.
You took offense at someone having an opinion about whether Poland is behaving wisely and then went on to impute ignorance of history to them. And yet the history you cite showed modern Poland struggling to fight off great powers while being betrayed by feckless American and British elites, the same historical realities cited on this substack as reasons why Poland should be more guarded about it's speech and actions.
Poland is entitled to behave in any manner it deems vital to its national interests. And should Poland pursue a course of national suicide, then outside observers will feel free to remark upon it.
We honor your ancestors for 1683 and your valor in WWII.
Friend, is your problem with elites , or with everybody?
Well you're a regular moral and intellectual GIANT, aren't you, insulting God and everybody this way? Poland defeated Nazi Germany all by itself did it? Were the Americans who died liberating Poland not up to your standards? I kneel at your feet humbly oh great one.
Promise?