The title of this post is the title of a video discussion between two military guys, Daniel Davis and Doug Macgregor. However, before getting to a partial transcript/summary I’ll take a brief—but related—detour. Earlier today Glenn Diesen hosted an excellent discussion:
Good quote from Egyppius which sums up well why the US neocons are behaving in this way: "we now live in a multipolar world, but with a political ethos still premised on unchallenged American hegemony. I fear that this is a very big problem, and that it will only get worse."
I read Eugy today as well and that quote caught my eye. I join him in worrying about how things will be when the neocons see no way out of the corner they’ve backed themselves into.
The CVNs Eisenhower & Ford each have 4500-5000 crew aboard; the support DDs & CGs have ~330 each. They'd be all sitting ducks should a Kinzhal or Zircon target them. Or a torpedo from *someone's* undetectable diesel/electric sub.
Support for Israel's sheer madness will evaporate PDQ from Ma and Pa Kettle out in the Heartlands.
"I think Mr Netanyahu is doing something similar in Israel. He's essentially saying, 'It's my way way or the highway.' Very true. Netanyahu has no other choice but to dial it up to 11. He has to risk regional war and maybe even WW3 to avoid a truly terrible outcome: him losing power. And for his type, avoiding that is worth millions of deaths.
Absolutely. I don't know if he is really guilty of what he is charged, but there is a very good chance the left-wing judiciary will put him away for a long time. Plenty of incentives for him to put on a "good show" with Gaza.
"The selling of arms has become the business of the United States. It's this role of the military contractors and their lobbyists that has also hijacking a lot of US foreign policy." And there was me thinking it was about spreading democracy! This probably explains why the mentally deranged Lindsey Graham is now in Jerusalem pumping up WW3.
A lot of great stuff to unpack in this one. Let's start with "The Neocon version is the kindergarten school of statesmanship. Roll out the wornout tropes from 1941 42 43 repackage them." The irony here is that they fall back on these broader WW2 clichés without any understanding or analysis of the flawed military tactics that doomed the higher strategic goals. If Netanyahu has any friends left, they should send him a copy of Anthony Beevor's "Stalingrad".
Mac Gregor was really on a roll ! The satanic loons occupying DC will never realize that both permanent alliances and permanent enemies are lethal threats to all nations. The "indispensable nation" has become an insane asylum, institutions of government are full of pathological personalities, political pimps and prostitutes, with a pathetic puppet as President.
Mark, as usual (and you were up late doing so!) you've gathered insightful and important info. A bit chilling, but as Col MacGregor points out, the US is an economic mess and projecting a hollow military threat across much too broad a theater. Very telling was his pointing out the US's social fabric is worn quite thin - those Pride Flags won't patch the tears the progressive culture of today has rendered. Naive 'super-power' neocons and the 'our way or the highway' diplomacy risk not just US hegemony, but life as we know it. Nuclear Fallout has no pronoun preferences, to be a bit trite. Blessings to you and all my fellow MIH truth seekers. (WrH)
"Nuclear Fallout has no pronoun preferences". Spot on, Wayne. Nor does Reality in general. The key to this whole global mess is that the US is failing as the top dog in town and how it is going to react to that failure. Will it retreat from the international stage with at least some grace and humility, or will it say, "If I can't own it, no-one will?" Unless there is a dramatic and totally unexpected cleaning of the Augean stables, I don't think anything can avoid option two.
__________ is no where near a real military, it's capacity is being way over estimated. Fill in the blank with "Vietcong", "Taliban", "ISIS", "Hezbollah"... No, seriously, Johny, you are correct. Hamas is not a real military unit. However, they don't need to be to defeat Israel. All they have to do is have enough zeal and fanaticism to hang around long enough to kill enough IDF squaddies so that Israeli public opinion calls enough.
Just like the Talibs were nothing like a “real military”. But they defeated both the US and NATO and the Afghan National (real) Army. Respect your enemy for their commitment to their cause, if for nothing else.
G'evening King R and Sir Johny, (Late beats not at all - glad you've come!) I've been slammed noting elsewhere that Hamas is a construct of Israel, gone bad but of it's creation never-the-less. Col. MacGregor noted that point as reported here - what are your guys' thoughts on that topic? I'm not particularly concerned about it except for the rabid vitriol in responses to the subject I've received. Just a somewhat secondary curiosity - thanks for your comments and should you share your thoughts I'll also appreciate your time! Best Regards, (WrH)
You and the good colonel seem to be correct, Wayne. It's hard to get the facts among the fog of war, but it seems pretty clear that Hamas was created by Israel as a counterweight to the PLO and Palestinian Authority. It was supposed to be a brilliant piece of "divide and conquer" but has obviously backfired horribly.
To avoid diluting this post's comments/thread & wanting to reply to you (thanks for the dialogue BTW!) I'll take the opportunity here... Mark sharing his posting last night seems to highlight very well what's going on - hence the very good comments - I'm going to go a little sideways w/you but you might agree, maybe dead on target. Scott Ritter posted (he has a Substack, do search/find it as I find him very credible and good info source) regarding his 'leaving supporting Israel'. It hurt my heart when I read it. It takes guts on his part to reveal his feelings but those are based on his actual involvement and experiences. I am not posting a link - altho' it probably falls within acceptable it was, to me at least, very difficult to accept yet screams of facts and truth. Let me know (if you do read it), your reaction/thoughts. Apologies to all MIH'ers - this forum is my connection to Steghorn whom is worth all of us listening to. Blessings to S'21 and to all! (WrH)
Thanks for your kind words, Wayne. Not sure I really deserve them. Rapidly changing events can quickly make our opinions seem silly! I like Scott Ritter - he's a less-polite, more ornery version of Colonel McGregor. I will check out his latest video. I'm sure it will be worth it.
Your comments speak for you by themselves. I was observing and noting is all . :^)
His article is not from a video (that I'm aware) but I found it searching Substack. (it's actually not within his personal substack tho'). I sincerely was jolted by it. Thanks again! (WrH)
You're right, KR. Thanks for your note. I asked because making a different point elsewhere [as a supporter of the Israel People being God's Chosen in Biblical History] Israel's creation of Hamas backfired was cause to accuse me of, um, sick-humanity. Denial was obvious but there are many reports Israel is 'innocent' of Hamas' promotion for dividing Palestine. Truth is difficult to discern and perhaps more than just painful to admit. My best regards sir! (WrH)
If Israel can kill nuclear scientists in Iran I’m sure Gaza is teeming with informants.
People can’t smuggle a pebble artefact out of Israel but somehow Hamas managed to challenge a nuclear power….I’ve got a bridge to sell if anyone’s interested….
G'day Ray! Noted by someone's comment here touched on the collision of the Secular Israel and Religious (Zionist) Israel factions. Both appear based in opposing extremes. Of note is Netanyahu is reportedly firmly in the Zionist camp. That 'side' wants to rebuild the Jewish Temple on the Mount - hence the horrific religious conflicts we're witnessing. Along with most info these days, I am reluctant to 'buy' most explanations. However, being extreme seems the only way to get anywhere and neither of the extreme sides here seem to be proper in their intent. (I don't know the emo-con for 'shoulder shrug', but that's where I am just now). Best Regards sir! (WrH)
Wayne, Secular Israel is Zionist Israel. Religious Israel can swing both ways in America they tend to identify as conservative. The world problem is with radical secular Zionists. They are the WEF and Soros among a host of others from banking , MSM, and our state department actors. These are the folks who desire world control and the demise of the USA.
Hey CTK, I need to do some boning up! I recognize Zionists as the radicals provoking the Muslims particularly over wanting to rebuild the Temple on the Mount, as in removing the Dome, but had the impression the secularists were the (rather large % of) Jews who were not religious or outright atheist. (And thusly not the ones wanting to rebuild the temple). A separation fairly well documented in the US as the Secularists are the predominant Democrat $ contributors here. I guess my simplistic mind considers secular as non-faithful hence my confusion I guess. Thanks for this discussion and info. Best Regards! (WrH)
I apologize if this seems like a rabbit trail - however I believe the desire of rebuilding of the (Third) Temple draws much more of the ME nations into prospective war with Israel than the Hamas issue and therefore very important and relative.
The discovery/revelation of the Jewish miqveh (ritual pool used for purification) beneath the site of the Al-Aqsa mosque (destroyed by earthquake in 1927) has inspired Orthodox Jews to seek to rebuild the temple on the Mount. (*Orthodox Jews [religious] NOT a purely Zionist group, this is important relative to my confusion noted by Cosmo*) Zionists can be Secular or Religious Jews- factually just Jews wanting to Build Israel securely however not "The Group" wanting to build the temple as I thought.
Secondary note, 49% of Israelis are secular Jews - that is non-religious. (Not all of any category/group of Jews are Zionist). I'll stop here but if anyone is interested, the link is to information written in October 2022 prior to current activities. As always, I can't vouch for accuracy but tend to think this article is good to go. Blessings to my fellow MIH readers! (WrH)
Nor I, but I am trying Ray! I found some info refining my understanding about Zionists, religious and secular Israelis. Responding to Cosmo T Kat I tried to flesh it out a little. I believe the desire of the religious sects (rather than 'zionists') to remove the dome and then rebuild the temple on the mount is an issue for most of the ME that somehow unites Sunni and Shi'ites (arch enemies if both muslim) against Israel. I dunno, maybe I'm missing something (I usually do!). Anyways, thanks for sharing your thoughts. Best @ you! (WrH)
Right. I remember it well at the time, I was still working. Puts a different light on that whole hoax investigation--they tried to frame that S. African scientist. I shocked a lot of my co-workers by loudly maintaining the guy was innocent. I still hadn't tumbled to the notion of the G actually framing people for political reasons.
Patrick Bryne has some inside baseball from the Israeli cybersecurity industry regarding the "intelligence failure" and the anti-Bibi judicial reform protests. From his angle, looks like another "six ways from Sunday" type of affair. Judge for yourself, it's a 22 minute video.
I've been following Patrick off and on since the 2020 electoral debacle. He's done some good work in Maricopa County and beyond. He also has some bonafides in the tech industry and spook world. He's a CFR member, for whatever that's worth. I certainly don't know his whole story, but I'm inclined to pay attention when he comes out with stuff like this.
Well, yeah. I understand it's invitation-only too. Strictly for the elites, but the elites aren't as monolithic as it sometimes appears down here on ground level. It's complicated: factions and shifting alliances.
He's pals with Gen. Michael Flynn, too, if that's any comfort.
It’s certainly interesting that the US spent 1/2 a billion dollars expanding air bases in Jordan over the past 5 years.
Good quote from Egyppius which sums up well why the US neocons are behaving in this way: "we now live in a multipolar world, but with a political ethos still premised on unchallenged American hegemony. I fear that this is a very big problem, and that it will only get worse."
I read Eugy today as well and that quote caught my eye. I join him in worrying about how things will be when the neocons see no way out of the corner they’ve backed themselves into.
The CVNs Eisenhower & Ford each have 4500-5000 crew aboard; the support DDs & CGs have ~330 each. They'd be all sitting ducks should a Kinzhal or Zircon target them. Or a torpedo from *someone's* undetectable diesel/electric sub.
Support for Israel's sheer madness will evaporate PDQ from Ma and Pa Kettle out in the Heartlands.
"I think Mr Netanyahu is doing something similar in Israel. He's essentially saying, 'It's my way way or the highway.' Very true. Netanyahu has no other choice but to dial it up to 11. He has to risk regional war and maybe even WW3 to avoid a truly terrible outcome: him losing power. And for his type, avoiding that is worth millions of deaths.
Absolutely. I don't know if he is really guilty of what he is charged, but there is a very good chance the left-wing judiciary will put him away for a long time. Plenty of incentives for him to put on a "good show" with Gaza.
"The selling of arms has become the business of the United States. It's this role of the military contractors and their lobbyists that has also hijacking a lot of US foreign policy." And there was me thinking it was about spreading democracy! This probably explains why the mentally deranged Lindsey Graham is now in Jerusalem pumping up WW3.
A lot of great stuff to unpack in this one. Let's start with "The Neocon version is the kindergarten school of statesmanship. Roll out the wornout tropes from 1941 42 43 repackage them." The irony here is that they fall back on these broader WW2 clichés without any understanding or analysis of the flawed military tactics that doomed the higher strategic goals. If Netanyahu has any friends left, they should send him a copy of Anthony Beevor's "Stalingrad".
Mac Gregor was really on a roll ! The satanic loons occupying DC will never realize that both permanent alliances and permanent enemies are lethal threats to all nations. The "indispensable nation" has become an insane asylum, institutions of government are full of pathological personalities, political pimps and prostitutes, with a pathetic puppet as President.
Austin is freakishly similar, Texas style .
Yep. We've found the Axis of Evil at last, and it's us.
What a conundrum for the Biden Admin.
He needs re-assure the contributors of 50% Democratic Party Funds (Jewish).
While not alienating the blm / Dei faction of the Democratic Party that has zero use for Israel, and views them as settlers / colonists.
While Israel is inflamed over the Hamas atrocities
https://legalinsurrection.com/2023/10/evidence-on-display-at-israels-forensic-pathology-center-confirms-hamas-atrocities/
And keep the Ukrainian bipartisan gravy train going.
And keep the price of oil reasonable, without a repeat spike as happened in 73 with the last major war.
As well as staying sweet with the neocons and MIC. And making sure everyone's using the right pronouns.
Mark, as usual (and you were up late doing so!) you've gathered insightful and important info. A bit chilling, but as Col MacGregor points out, the US is an economic mess and projecting a hollow military threat across much too broad a theater. Very telling was his pointing out the US's social fabric is worn quite thin - those Pride Flags won't patch the tears the progressive culture of today has rendered. Naive 'super-power' neocons and the 'our way or the highway' diplomacy risk not just US hegemony, but life as we know it. Nuclear Fallout has no pronoun preferences, to be a bit trite. Blessings to you and all my fellow MIH truth seekers. (WrH)
"Nuclear Fallout has no pronoun preferences". Spot on, Wayne. Nor does Reality in general. The key to this whole global mess is that the US is failing as the top dog in town and how it is going to react to that failure. Will it retreat from the international stage with at least some grace and humility, or will it say, "If I can't own it, no-one will?" Unless there is a dramatic and totally unexpected cleaning of the Augean stables, I don't think anything can avoid option two.
Good point, Cass. They will us the US like a firelighter: creates a great blaze and is destroyed in the process.
Hamas is no where near a real military, it’s capacity is being way over estimated.
__________ is no where near a real military, it's capacity is being way over estimated. Fill in the blank with "Vietcong", "Taliban", "ISIS", "Hezbollah"... No, seriously, Johny, you are correct. Hamas is not a real military unit. However, they don't need to be to defeat Israel. All they have to do is have enough zeal and fanaticism to hang around long enough to kill enough IDF squaddies so that Israeli public opinion calls enough.
Just like the Talibs were nothing like a “real military”. But they defeated both the US and NATO and the Afghan National (real) Army. Respect your enemy for their commitment to their cause, if for nothing else.
G'evening King R and Sir Johny, (Late beats not at all - glad you've come!) I've been slammed noting elsewhere that Hamas is a construct of Israel, gone bad but of it's creation never-the-less. Col. MacGregor noted that point as reported here - what are your guys' thoughts on that topic? I'm not particularly concerned about it except for the rabid vitriol in responses to the subject I've received. Just a somewhat secondary curiosity - thanks for your comments and should you share your thoughts I'll also appreciate your time! Best Regards, (WrH)
You and the good colonel seem to be correct, Wayne. It's hard to get the facts among the fog of war, but it seems pretty clear that Hamas was created by Israel as a counterweight to the PLO and Palestinian Authority. It was supposed to be a brilliant piece of "divide and conquer" but has obviously backfired horribly.
G'afternoon (your time! I'm tryin'...) S'21!
To avoid diluting this post's comments/thread & wanting to reply to you (thanks for the dialogue BTW!) I'll take the opportunity here... Mark sharing his posting last night seems to highlight very well what's going on - hence the very good comments - I'm going to go a little sideways w/you but you might agree, maybe dead on target. Scott Ritter posted (he has a Substack, do search/find it as I find him very credible and good info source) regarding his 'leaving supporting Israel'. It hurt my heart when I read it. It takes guts on his part to reveal his feelings but those are based on his actual involvement and experiences. I am not posting a link - altho' it probably falls within acceptable it was, to me at least, very difficult to accept yet screams of facts and truth. Let me know (if you do read it), your reaction/thoughts. Apologies to all MIH'ers - this forum is my connection to Steghorn whom is worth all of us listening to. Blessings to S'21 and to all! (WrH)
Thanks for your kind words, Wayne. Not sure I really deserve them. Rapidly changing events can quickly make our opinions seem silly! I like Scott Ritter - he's a less-polite, more ornery version of Colonel McGregor. I will check out his latest video. I'm sure it will be worth it.
Your comments speak for you by themselves. I was observing and noting is all . :^)
His article is not from a video (that I'm aware) but I found it searching Substack. (it's actually not within his personal substack tho'). I sincerely was jolted by it. Thanks again! (WrH)
What’s to comment? Col. M was just citing fact. Gone bad? Yup.
You're right, KR. Thanks for your note. I asked because making a different point elsewhere [as a supporter of the Israel People being God's Chosen in Biblical History] Israel's creation of Hamas backfired was cause to accuse me of, um, sick-humanity. Denial was obvious but there are many reports Israel is 'innocent' of Hamas' promotion for dividing Palestine. Truth is difficult to discern and perhaps more than just painful to admit. My best regards sir! (WrH)
If Israel can kill nuclear scientists in Iran I’m sure Gaza is teeming with informants.
People can’t smuggle a pebble artefact out of Israel but somehow Hamas managed to challenge a nuclear power….I’ve got a bridge to sell if anyone’s interested….
Aye!
It’s sad I consider this a possibility.
Covid took out Trump. Just a coincidence how that happened.
And this Gaza debacle will probably take out Netanyahu.
G'day Ray! Noted by someone's comment here touched on the collision of the Secular Israel and Religious (Zionist) Israel factions. Both appear based in opposing extremes. Of note is Netanyahu is reportedly firmly in the Zionist camp. That 'side' wants to rebuild the Jewish Temple on the Mount - hence the horrific religious conflicts we're witnessing. Along with most info these days, I am reluctant to 'buy' most explanations. However, being extreme seems the only way to get anywhere and neither of the extreme sides here seem to be proper in their intent. (I don't know the emo-con for 'shoulder shrug', but that's where I am just now). Best Regards sir! (WrH)
Wayne, Secular Israel is Zionist Israel. Religious Israel can swing both ways in America they tend to identify as conservative. The world problem is with radical secular Zionists. They are the WEF and Soros among a host of others from banking , MSM, and our state department actors. These are the folks who desire world control and the demise of the USA.
Hey CTK, I need to do some boning up! I recognize Zionists as the radicals provoking the Muslims particularly over wanting to rebuild the Temple on the Mount, as in removing the Dome, but had the impression the secularists were the (rather large % of) Jews who were not religious or outright atheist. (And thusly not the ones wanting to rebuild the temple). A separation fairly well documented in the US as the Secularists are the predominant Democrat $ contributors here. I guess my simplistic mind considers secular as non-faithful hence my confusion I guess. Thanks for this discussion and info. Best Regards! (WrH)
https://www.jewishvoice.org/read/article/update-building-third-temple
I apologize if this seems like a rabbit trail - however I believe the desire of rebuilding of the (Third) Temple draws much more of the ME nations into prospective war with Israel than the Hamas issue and therefore very important and relative.
The discovery/revelation of the Jewish miqveh (ritual pool used for purification) beneath the site of the Al-Aqsa mosque (destroyed by earthquake in 1927) has inspired Orthodox Jews to seek to rebuild the temple on the Mount. (*Orthodox Jews [religious] NOT a purely Zionist group, this is important relative to my confusion noted by Cosmo*) Zionists can be Secular or Religious Jews- factually just Jews wanting to Build Israel securely however not "The Group" wanting to build the temple as I thought.
Secondary note, 49% of Israelis are secular Jews - that is non-religious. (Not all of any category/group of Jews are Zionist). I'll stop here but if anyone is interested, the link is to information written in October 2022 prior to current activities. As always, I can't vouch for accuracy but tend to think this article is good to go. Blessings to my fellow MIH readers! (WrH)
Israeli politics I don’t understand.
Nor I, but I am trying Ray! I found some info refining my understanding about Zionists, religious and secular Israelis. Responding to Cosmo T Kat I tried to flesh it out a little. I believe the desire of the religious sects (rather than 'zionists') to remove the dome and then rebuild the temple on the mount is an issue for most of the ME that somehow unites Sunni and Shi'ites (arch enemies if both muslim) against Israel. I dunno, maybe I'm missing something (I usually do!). Anyways, thanks for sharing your thoughts. Best @ you! (WrH)
And don’t forget the anthrax attack that coincidently helped pass the patriot act, that empowered the deep state deeply.
Right. I remember it well at the time, I was still working. Puts a different light on that whole hoax investigation--they tried to frame that S. African scientist. I shocked a lot of my co-workers by loudly maintaining the guy was innocent. I still hadn't tumbled to the notion of the G actually framing people for political reasons.
Patrick Bryne has some inside baseball from the Israeli cybersecurity industry regarding the "intelligence failure" and the anti-Bibi judicial reform protests. From his angle, looks like another "six ways from Sunday" type of affair. Judge for yourself, it's a 22 minute video.
https://x.com/PatrickByrne/status/1712536185065844775
I've been following Patrick off and on since the 2020 electoral debacle. He's done some good work in Maricopa County and beyond. He also has some bonafides in the tech industry and spook world. He's a CFR member, for whatever that's worth. I certainly don't know his whole story, but I'm inclined to pay attention when he comes out with stuff like this.
Well, yeah. I understand it's invitation-only too. Strictly for the elites, but the elites aren't as monolithic as it sometimes appears down here on ground level. It's complicated: factions and shifting alliances.
He's pals with Gen. Michael Flynn, too, if that's any comfort.
Note "Patrick M. Byrne" at https://www.cfr.org/membership/roster
Here's an old vid for some more background: https://rumble.com/vlcx3j-politics-2020-deep-state-operation-snow-globe.html