Agree, if Michelle is a no go. However, while Susan Rice is a known to folks who follow politics, she has no mass name recognition (vs. Trump, Desantis or RFKjr). Obama should have forced her on Biden rather than let him select Willie Brown's protégé (as they say) and Dems would he in a much berrer position. Kamala is Biden life insurance policy, as no one thought she would be this bad.
Well said...just speculating at pressure to stop another Trump win will be enormous. My comment is in the spirit of "desperate times call for desperate measures"
Who else is there? Newsom is a very weak 2nd choice.
Turley and several others (Bonchie @RedState; Cernovich) are hanging their hat on the audio recording as THE specific piece of evidence. Outside of that I think most are aligned to these thoughts.
The recording itself is ambiguous in terms of what's required for a violation of the Espionage Act. Plus, I just saw something--dunno whether it's true--claiming that the SC doesn't actually have a copy of the doc that Trump purports to be holding in the recording. Was Trump just blustering for effect? Who knows?
I have a crazy theory. They know the case is nothing, because of Presidential Records Act. Further, they filed the case in Florida, which they know is more Trump friendly (by 1000%) than a DC venue. By doing this they get the benefit of placating the TDS masses looking to hamstring Trump with a Fed indictment. They know they'll lose, but at least can claim they tried. They also get an election issue by claiming that Trump judges will ruin the justice system. Similar to Biden executive orders on student loans, they can claim they tried, but those "damn Trump judges' stood in our way.
Only Biden election message is "must stop Trump" as he has no policy/accomplishments and Ukraine will have turned into another Afghanistan by then. I'm also 50:50 if Biden even makes it to nomination, as mounting corruption, economic and Ukraine issues may force Dems to move on if they want half a chance. RFKjr dynamic could get real interesting. Replay of LBJ and RFK in 68. Gavin Newsom is a non starter (think Eugene McCarthy-72)...no one credible on the Dem bench.
Thanks and basically agree. Just speculation that pressure to run will be enormous for Michelle if "stop Trump at all costs" is considered necessary. Who else is there? Newsom, please. Warren or Buttigieg, laughable. Desperate times...
Thanks for posting. The last 3 years have shown us many ideas that are perhaps initially non-intuitive or fail occams's razor become the best explanation versus being shown to be a groundless conspiracy theory.
Thanks, Mark, for compiling the most-cogent analysis I’ve seen on point. Have been trying to piece together the interplay between the PRA and the Espionage Act, but to no avail, as the last time I cracked a Con Law, Crim Law or Crim Pro book in anger was studying for the bar exam some 30 years ago. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing, so it’s good to have a pro around.
I’m pretty sure the “stop Trump” forces at DOJ can read the Qualifications Clause, so it seems that this prosecution is more about mortally wounding, than killing off, Trump as a candidate. As such, this authoritarian drama pisses me off all the more.
Turley spoke about the “big debate” about whether or not you can impeach someone “for conduct before they became president.” He noted that because Biden is now denying the allegations while he occupies the office, you might be able to do some “bootstrapping” — meaning going after him for the remarks/actions while in office, trying to cover up the prior actions.
But beyond that, Turley noted that the Democrats just created a precedent that you can go after a former President, by going after Trump after he was out of office by the time of the Senate impeachment trial. Turley said that precedent could be used potentially to impeach Biden for his actions when he was vice president.
That would be an issue for Dems if the Conservative Republican (if we have any left) ever win again. With the election stealing mechanism in place that will be very difficult.
Another consideration. They seem to have tried something like that in 2016, and it turned out badly. It seems to me they're unlikely to be underestimating Trump this go round.
Maybe just coincidence, but UK's Boris Johnson was effectively forced to resign his seat in UK parliament today, text of his resignation at BBC. It sounds like they were just tired of him. After all, they must love that he's #1 global advocate for US taxpayer funded Ukraine war. "Johnson is “very much seen as the [unelected] architect of the Western policy” on Ukraine, Polyakova said.". Politico...May 23, 2023, “Send for Agent BoJo! Boris Johnson dispatched to Texas to shore up Republican support for Ukraine,” Politico, Annabelle Dickson, Dallas
This is the proverbial 'kitchen sink' being thrown at Trump. If this doesn't hold water, what could be their Hail Mary? Or is this it? Tie up Trump with appeals, etc.? At what point does this entire 'get Trump' become comical in the eyes of the American people? The Russian Hoax, two failed impeachments - one after Trump was no longer in office, the Mueller coverup, the obvious - and more obvious with each passing day - two-tiered injustice system.
One of Alinsky's most potent rules is ridicule. Smith and his gas lighters should be the focus of ridicule from now on from those on the right.
Asu usual, Robert Barnes gets to the heart of the issue:
Robert Barnes
@barnes_law
·
3h
The core legal defect in the #TrumpIndictment is it elevates the unelected #DeepState over Constitutionally elected Presidents, in terms of the keeping, accessing, controlling of information & documents. If this case is upheld, we are legally no longer a Constitutional democracy.
Karen Gilbert, a Justice Department prosecutor who is leading the government’s case against former President Donald Trump related to his handling of allegedly classified documents, has a history of corruption and was once reprimanded by a federal judge for secretly recording a defense lawyer and his investigator.
Gilbert, who is Special Counsel Jack Smith’s deputy and a federal prosecutor, is “one of the most corrupt prosecutors to ever come out of the Southern District of Miami,” according to Kash Patel, a former top Trump administration official and also a former prosecutor.
“The lead prosecutor Karen Gilbert, who is likely to be the trial attorney in the Southern District of Florida, in 2009 was so reprimanded in a narcotics trafficking case that she had to retire from her position,” Patel said in a Fox News interview on Friday.
Plus this tells me they may be scraping the bottom of the barrel with respect to Prosecutor's willingness to step into this quagmire. "Hey, let's find someone dark, immoral, and unethical".
In the last thread, I recommended the Kash Pastel program on Epoch TV. It came on at 8pm and can be streamed now.
Patel explains the Espionage Act, in short referred to as the National Defense Information act (NDI) which is 100+/-years old, preceeding the Classified Materials Act by about 50 years, and the PRA from the Carter era.
Patel's grasp of the issues and the players involved, and seemingly obscure (to me) legal points which he brings to life is well worth the 40 minutes long watch of the program.
I agree with you however…..you can detect a very conflicted Turley whenever he has to go against his innate ideological leanings to criticize Democrats. I sense the same conflict in Dershowitz, and his angst is going against the tribe to deliver harsh reality. Both, despite their preference for truth, would still vote Dem, the source of their anguish, which is fundamentally bizarre. How do you criticize then vote for more of the same?
Agree, if Michelle is a no go. However, while Susan Rice is a known to folks who follow politics, she has no mass name recognition (vs. Trump, Desantis or RFKjr). Obama should have forced her on Biden rather than let him select Willie Brown's protégé (as they say) and Dems would he in a much berrer position. Kamala is Biden life insurance policy, as no one thought she would be this bad.
Well said...just speculating at pressure to stop another Trump win will be enormous. My comment is in the spirit of "desperate times call for desperate measures"
Who else is there? Newsom is a very weak 2nd choice.
That being said, I agree with your comments.
Turley and several others (Bonchie @RedState; Cernovich) are hanging their hat on the audio recording as THE specific piece of evidence. Outside of that I think most are aligned to these thoughts.
The recording itself is ambiguous in terms of what's required for a violation of the Espionage Act. Plus, I just saw something--dunno whether it's true--claiming that the SC doesn't actually have a copy of the doc that Trump purports to be holding in the recording. Was Trump just blustering for effect? Who knows?
I have a crazy theory. They know the case is nothing, because of Presidential Records Act. Further, they filed the case in Florida, which they know is more Trump friendly (by 1000%) than a DC venue. By doing this they get the benefit of placating the TDS masses looking to hamstring Trump with a Fed indictment. They know they'll lose, but at least can claim they tried. They also get an election issue by claiming that Trump judges will ruin the justice system. Similar to Biden executive orders on student loans, they can claim they tried, but those "damn Trump judges' stood in our way.
Only Biden election message is "must stop Trump" as he has no policy/accomplishments and Ukraine will have turned into another Afghanistan by then. I'm also 50:50 if Biden even makes it to nomination, as mounting corruption, economic and Ukraine issues may force Dems to move on if they want half a chance. RFKjr dynamic could get real interesting. Replay of LBJ and RFK in 68. Gavin Newsom is a non starter (think Eugene McCarthy-72)...no one credible on the Dem bench.
Plus RFK Jr. is going to be brought down on other fictitious charges.
Hope not, but would guess the Obama & Susan Rice planning is underway. Could Michelle Obama be the nominee?
Thanks and basically agree. Just speculation that pressure to run will be enormous for Michelle if "stop Trump at all costs" is considered necessary. Who else is there? Newsom, please. Warren or Buttigieg, laughable. Desperate times...
"they filed the case in Florida, which they know is more Trump friendly..." Except that the grand jury was based in South Florida.
Didn't they have a choice on venue for grand jury, as records originated in DC?
Thanks for posting. The last 3 years have shown us many ideas that are perhaps initially non-intuitive or fail occams's razor become the best explanation versus being shown to be a groundless conspiracy theory.
Thanks, Mark, for compiling the most-cogent analysis I’ve seen on point. Have been trying to piece together the interplay between the PRA and the Espionage Act, but to no avail, as the last time I cracked a Con Law, Crim Law or Crim Pro book in anger was studying for the bar exam some 30 years ago. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing, so it’s good to have a pro around.
I’m pretty sure the “stop Trump” forces at DOJ can read the Qualifications Clause, so it seems that this prosecution is more about mortally wounding, than killing off, Trump as a candidate. As such, this authoritarian drama pisses me off all the more.
What is CTH?
Conservative Treehouse- Sundance is the editor/author and provides brilliant, deep dive analysis
Mark's kinda warming up to Sundance... LOL.
Thanks!
Dont know what CTH is, though I searched.
Conservative tree house
https://redstate.com/nick-arama/2023/06/09/turley-reveals-how-dem-efforts-to-take-down-trump-may-come-back-to-bite-biden-n758934
Turley spoke about the “big debate” about whether or not you can impeach someone “for conduct before they became president.” He noted that because Biden is now denying the allegations while he occupies the office, you might be able to do some “bootstrapping” — meaning going after him for the remarks/actions while in office, trying to cover up the prior actions.
But beyond that, Turley noted that the Democrats just created a precedent that you can go after a former President, by going after Trump after he was out of office by the time of the Senate impeachment trial. Turley said that precedent could be used potentially to impeach Biden for his actions when he was vice president.
and that would require Kevin and cocaine Mitch to have some ....
isn't any discussion of a Buyden impeachment moot because the dems have the senate?
That would be an issue for Dems if the Conservative Republican (if we have any left) ever win again. With the election stealing mechanism in place that will be very difficult.
Ask the current Senator (male) from W. Virginia about that.
imho this affirms the dem strategy is to pump up trump base to win nomination because he has no pathway to 270.
Another consideration. They seem to have tried something like that in 2016, and it turned out badly. It seems to me they're unlikely to be underestimating Trump this go round.
Would be a bold strategy. However, by making him a martyr might that not strengthen his appeal--a sympathy thing--to a wider public?
Maybe just coincidence, but UK's Boris Johnson was effectively forced to resign his seat in UK parliament today, text of his resignation at BBC. It sounds like they were just tired of him. After all, they must love that he's #1 global advocate for US taxpayer funded Ukraine war. "Johnson is “very much seen as the [unelected] architect of the Western policy” on Ukraine, Polyakova said.". Politico...May 23, 2023, “Send for Agent BoJo! Boris Johnson dispatched to Texas to shore up Republican support for Ukraine,” Politico, Annabelle Dickson, Dallas
I suspect Johnson has resigned now because he’s lined up his next globalist gig. Expect an announcement in the next month.
Next President of Ukraine is what I hear.
This is the proverbial 'kitchen sink' being thrown at Trump. If this doesn't hold water, what could be their Hail Mary? Or is this it? Tie up Trump with appeals, etc.? At what point does this entire 'get Trump' become comical in the eyes of the American people? The Russian Hoax, two failed impeachments - one after Trump was no longer in office, the Mueller coverup, the obvious - and more obvious with each passing day - two-tiered injustice system.
One of Alinsky's most potent rules is ridicule. Smith and his gas lighters should be the focus of ridicule from now on from those on the right.
Asu usual, Robert Barnes gets to the heart of the issue:
Robert Barnes
@barnes_law
·
3h
The core legal defect in the #TrumpIndictment is it elevates the unelected #DeepState over Constitutionally elected Presidents, in terms of the keeping, accessing, controlling of information & documents. If this case is upheld, we are legally no longer a Constitutional democracy.
https://twitter.com/barnes_law/status/1667288565238358016
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2023/06/09/special-counsel-prosecutor-karen-gilberts-history-corruption-clouds-trump-indictment/
Karen Gilbert, a Justice Department prosecutor who is leading the government’s case against former President Donald Trump related to his handling of allegedly classified documents, has a history of corruption and was once reprimanded by a federal judge for secretly recording a defense lawyer and his investigator.
Gilbert, who is Special Counsel Jack Smith’s deputy and a federal prosecutor, is “one of the most corrupt prosecutors to ever come out of the Southern District of Miami,” according to Kash Patel, a former top Trump administration official and also a former prosecutor.
“The lead prosecutor Karen Gilbert, who is likely to be the trial attorney in the Southern District of Florida, in 2009 was so reprimanded in a narcotics trafficking case that she had to retire from her position,” Patel said in a Fox News interview on Friday.
Plus this tells me they may be scraping the bottom of the barrel with respect to Prosecutor's willingness to step into this quagmire. "Hey, let's find someone dark, immoral, and unethical".
sounds like an Andrew Weissmann apprentice at one time.
Wow; I just wrote this before I read the piece. Maybe now I'll be famous.
In the last thread, I recommended the Kash Pastel program on Epoch TV. It came on at 8pm and can be streamed now.
Patel explains the Espionage Act, in short referred to as the National Defense Information act (NDI) which is 100+/-years old, preceeding the Classified Materials Act by about 50 years, and the PRA from the Carter era.
Patel's grasp of the issues and the players involved, and seemingly obscure (to me) legal points which he brings to life is well worth the 40 minutes long watch of the program.
Most Strongly Recommended❗
WDC DELINDA EST.
I differ. Turley seems to me to offer reason and logic. I may not agree with him, but I think he’s honestly trying to provide logical legal analysis.
I agree with you however…..you can detect a very conflicted Turley whenever he has to go against his innate ideological leanings to criticize Democrats. I sense the same conflict in Dershowitz, and his angst is going against the tribe to deliver harsh reality. Both, despite their preference for truth, would still vote Dem, the source of their anguish, which is fundamentally bizarre. How do you criticize then vote for more of the same?