That’s a good thing—for me. Despite having worked with classified documents for over 20 years, I’m not an expert on classification. No deep understanding of the conceptual framework underpinning the classification system is required to do the day to day work at the FBI field level. Dyer, who has that understanding, explains it in some detail—and you may wish to bookmark the article for future reference:
In essence, the memos suggest Biden WH authorized GSA send the boxes laced with documents still having classification markings to MAL (whether they perhaps spiked the boxes with classified material is not addressed,) then told National Archives to seek their return, the returned of said documents were then used as the basis of FBI opening an "investigation," and then WH counsel's office summarily "waived" Trump's putative right to claim executive privilege over documents, all without any court ruling on whether Trump did or did NOT have executive privilege WRT the documents.
IOW, Biden WH orchestrated the whole thing to frame Trump, long before a Grand Jury was convened to take evidence, testimony, and issue subpoenae, and a Magistrate subsequently granted the search warrant for MAL.
If true, this is another prime example of the insanity presiding over our age. How in the world can a current POTUS revoke the executive privilege claim of a former POTUS!?
Other things (China, China, China)
1. I’m aware that some members of right of center media reporting have attempted to link the 08/08 date of the MAL search to deep state attempts to link Trump to neo-nazis. I reject that. However, the first thing I considered concerning the search date of 08/08 is that 08/08 is a propitious number in Chinese because the Chinese word for eight (ba) sounds similar to the Chinese word for prosperity and wealth. The Beijing summer Olympics started at UTC +8:00 on 08/08/2008. This reflects the emphasis and reverence the Chinese place on/have for the number 8. PLA Day is the first day of the eighth month (08/01). Just throwing that out there.
2. The political and financial links that Biden and Hunter have with/to the PRC have been well documented by some in the media (right of center) but pretty much ignored by many others (left of center). One could reasonably and rightly believe the Bidens are indebted to the PRC.
3. These are profiles ofJonathan Su (Chinese name SU Chunwei) who worked in the Obama administration and is a Partner with Latham & Watkins LLP (I’m not busting on ethnic Chinese) and is mentioned in the Redstate article:
The (WH) memos show then-White House Deputy Counsel Jonathan Su was engaged in conversations with the FBI, DOJ and National Archives as early as April, shortly after 15 boxes of classified and other materials were voluntarily returned to the federal historical agency from Trump’s Florida home.
By May, Su conveyed to the Archives that President Joe Biden would not object to waiving his predecessor’s claims to executive claims, a decision that opened the door for DOJ to get a grand jury to issue a subpoena compelling Trump to turn over any remaining materials he possessed from his presidency.
4. I would think a stronger case could be made that the MAL search is a Democrat and CCP-assisted (or perhaps CCP-driven) perversion of US “democratic” processes to humiliate (Chicoms are known for humiliating those not in their favor) and extract retribution on a mutual nemesis (Biden specifically and the Deep State, Democrats and CCP, generally, but not necessarily in that order. )
Hope I’m wrong but if not, we’re in a world of hurt.
Just a thought: Durham must be working on a great tan - where has he been? And what’s with Hillary’s “ but the emails” T-shirts? I think the whole country should file a massive lawsuit against our government: conspiracy to defraud US citizens of a constitutional republic. Tx again Mark for marshaling the best and the brightest and your own invaluable intellect and judgment!
Much as I admire J E Dyer, I continue to believe this is more about the Divine Right of Kings than American jurisprudence. These people believe they are uniquely gifted to govern in a rational manner, and simply do not understand that another alternative exists. The sheer arrogance demonstrated by the search/raid and their failure to perceive the negative effect this would produce in terms of public opinion, far outweighing any legal benefit, means they are tone-deaf. It is tempting to engage in rational calculations but they have handed Trump a major victory in swaying the American voter.
This is difficult for folks to understand, but is very important when considering what (formerly?) classified documents Trump might have.
"What I’m going to say is this: It’s virtually 100% certain that any classified documents—if they were still classified—in Trump’s possession would have been “product”. "
I, too, worked with classified docs for years - and can't recall ever reading non-product classified intelligence more than a handful of times. Typically that was highly technical explanations of the capabilities of weapon or intelligence platforms - information that does not change over time (unless improved, modified, etc.)
Product intelligence is mostly ephemeral - it is useful for a short time, then decreases in importance over time. Think of a report that a Russian warship was seen at point A an hour ago. Knowing the warship, through collection of data over time, the technical experts know normal cruising and flank speeds. So, from an hour ago, you have a certain radius within which the ship almost certainly still exists and can still be used for targeting. But that info in ten hours is less precise, less useful, and within not too many hours, almost meaningless.
An example could be the Russian preparations to invade Ukraine. The reports that Trump got, whether short, concise segments of the Presidential Daily Brief, or longer, specific reports, were almost certainly product. This would have been washed through multiple analysts from multiple sources (think of an evening news show with a single anchor orchestrating the presentation of various field reporters and expert commentators regarding a single event).
So, Trump's notional Russian invasion prep report would draw on various "sources and methods". Let's posit 3:
- national assets
- ELINT Electronic Intelligence assets
- HUMINT Human Intelligence assets
In English:
- satellite collected data
- radio intercept data
- spy data
Processed intel is very carefully combed to remove the source of data. E.g., any photos of a Russian tank park taken from a satellite would be obscured, blurred, reduced in fidelity to hide the real capabilities of the satellite camera, time of day / angle to hide which specific satellite might have been used, etc. This would be true for the President - there simply was no point to explaining to him "This untouched photo was taken from Satellite X's Foottrack camera at 10:47:30h from point XYZ over the Black Sea, transmitted through ABC frequency through relay at Ice Station Zebra arriving at HQ 0.58 seconds later on the workstation of Analyst Schweik an hour ago..." The photo would be processed to hide those details, to be supported by other electronic measures, and perhaps even verified by a human asset on the ground.
BTW, the 'nuke secrets documents' canard? While I never held Q (nuke weapons) clearance, my understanding is that it is primarily a stand alone nuclear weapons technology classification.
For example, as a military operations planner (the spooks worked for us, btw), the plans section in which I worked needed a number of planners who knew the existence and availability to our command of certain tactical nuclear weapons, their capabilities, delivery systems, command and control mechanisms, prep times required, any number of factors in order to make effective operations plans. (In fact, once by accident, I got an entire box full of the field operator's manual for a class of certain type of nuclear weapon - they were not even classified.)
But the technical design details of that weapon would never be in normal SECRET or TOP SECRET classification documents - it is segregated in another classification system all together. As I had no 'need to know' how that weapon worked, or the material used, the technical guy working on the device had no 'need to know' how I might be planning to use the weapon - very few people had clearances spanning both sides of that void.
Anyhow, the subject is very complex, and until we know very precisely what Trump held, the complexity is driving a lot of pointless speculation.
How long can the doj keep all this bottled up in the courts?
Or is the right question how long do they want to keep it bottled up?
How long to its “old news”. Another Clinton tactic was delay till a scandal became old news.
My guess is through the midterms, and the Biden Administration did not expect the blowback. They thought it was a way to hurt Trump, and the candidates he is backing.
The just subpoenaed the video footage, so now Trump can’t release it:
As we await further developments when Pravda and Izvestia publish them!
I cannot believe that this whole disgusting mess is unfolding before our eyes in real time. If anyone here had told me 5 years ago that this is where we would be in this country, I would have said that they were crazier n hell! Little did I know.
Over at PJ Media, Athena Thorne believes the DOJ/FBI/Donkey party plan to arrest Trump. We'll see if they want to wade even deeper into the morass that awaits them if they do. They want the perp-walk and mug shot for photo ops, thinking that will finally kill off their foe who refuses to die a death from their thousand cuts.
The Dyer rationale for the raid makes more sense than anything else I have read, particularly given the timing. And to think, I never knew that the defendant in a civil trial no longer has to make requests for the production of documents as part of Discovery... they can simply raid the plaintiff's house for the documents! What a wonderful legal system we have! What a country!
Thanks for your take on the classification issue, Mark.
Affirmative!
John Solomon appears to have "Smoking gun" evidence that Biden WH was deeply involved in INSTIGATING the entire mess in which Trump now finds himself:
>> https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/all-things-trump/biden-white-house-facilitated-dojs-criminal-probe-against-trump <<
In essence, the memos suggest Biden WH authorized GSA send the boxes laced with documents still having classification markings to MAL (whether they perhaps spiked the boxes with classified material is not addressed,) then told National Archives to seek their return, the returned of said documents were then used as the basis of FBI opening an "investigation," and then WH counsel's office summarily "waived" Trump's putative right to claim executive privilege over documents, all without any court ruling on whether Trump did or did NOT have executive privilege WRT the documents.
IOW, Biden WH orchestrated the whole thing to frame Trump, long before a Grand Jury was convened to take evidence, testimony, and issue subpoenae, and a Magistrate subsequently granted the search warrant for MAL.
https://redstate.com/bonchie/2022/08/22/report-memos-show-joe-biden-tried-to-entrap-donald-trump-over-classified-documents-n616274
https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/all-things-trump/biden-white-house-facilitated-dojs-criminal-probe-against-trump
If true, this is another prime example of the insanity presiding over our age. How in the world can a current POTUS revoke the executive privilege claim of a former POTUS!?
Other things (China, China, China)
1. I’m aware that some members of right of center media reporting have attempted to link the 08/08 date of the MAL search to deep state attempts to link Trump to neo-nazis. I reject that. However, the first thing I considered concerning the search date of 08/08 is that 08/08 is a propitious number in Chinese because the Chinese word for eight (ba) sounds similar to the Chinese word for prosperity and wealth. The Beijing summer Olympics started at UTC +8:00 on 08/08/2008. This reflects the emphasis and reverence the Chinese place on/have for the number 8. PLA Day is the first day of the eighth month (08/01). Just throwing that out there.
2. The political and financial links that Biden and Hunter have with/to the PRC have been well documented by some in the media (right of center) but pretty much ignored by many others (left of center). One could reasonably and rightly believe the Bidens are indebted to the PRC.
3. These are profiles ofJonathan Su (Chinese name SU Chunwei) who worked in the Obama administration and is a Partner with Latham & Watkins LLP (I’m not busting on ethnic Chinese) and is mentioned in the Redstate article:
https://www.legal500.com/firms/50571-latham-watkins-llp/50803-washington-dc-usa/lawyers/616310-jonathan-chunwei-su/
https://therevolvingdoorproject.org/revolver-spotlight-jonathan-su/
Per the Redstate article:
The (WH) memos show then-White House Deputy Counsel Jonathan Su was engaged in conversations with the FBI, DOJ and National Archives as early as April, shortly after 15 boxes of classified and other materials were voluntarily returned to the federal historical agency from Trump’s Florida home.
By May, Su conveyed to the Archives that President Joe Biden would not object to waiving his predecessor’s claims to executive claims, a decision that opened the door for DOJ to get a grand jury to issue a subpoena compelling Trump to turn over any remaining materials he possessed from his presidency.
4. I would think a stronger case could be made that the MAL search is a Democrat and CCP-assisted (or perhaps CCP-driven) perversion of US “democratic” processes to humiliate (Chicoms are known for humiliating those not in their favor) and extract retribution on a mutual nemesis (Biden specifically and the Deep State, Democrats and CCP, generally, but not necessarily in that order. )
Hope I’m wrong but if not, we’re in a world of hurt.
Today from Jen Dyer:
https://theoptimisticconservative.wordpress.com/2022/08/16/three-more-pings-on-mar-a-lago-raid-a-situational-awareness-adjustment/#more-6984
Today from Tracy Beanz
https://uncoverdc.com/2022/08/15/breaking-does-doj-have-two-unrelated-cases-open-against-trump/
The link to the Jen Dryer article does not work today.
Just a thought: Durham must be working on a great tan - where has he been? And what’s with Hillary’s “ but the emails” T-shirts? I think the whole country should file a massive lawsuit against our government: conspiracy to defraud US citizens of a constitutional republic. Tx again Mark for marshaling the best and the brightest and your own invaluable intellect and judgment!
https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2022/08/peak-trump-derangement-syndrome.php
Much as I admire J E Dyer, I continue to believe this is more about the Divine Right of Kings than American jurisprudence. These people believe they are uniquely gifted to govern in a rational manner, and simply do not understand that another alternative exists. The sheer arrogance demonstrated by the search/raid and their failure to perceive the negative effect this would produce in terms of public opinion, far outweighing any legal benefit, means they are tone-deaf. It is tempting to engage in rational calculations but they have handed Trump a major victory in swaying the American voter.
Jen Dyer is very good, very precise.
This is difficult for folks to understand, but is very important when considering what (formerly?) classified documents Trump might have.
"What I’m going to say is this: It’s virtually 100% certain that any classified documents—if they were still classified—in Trump’s possession would have been “product”. "
I, too, worked with classified docs for years - and can't recall ever reading non-product classified intelligence more than a handful of times. Typically that was highly technical explanations of the capabilities of weapon or intelligence platforms - information that does not change over time (unless improved, modified, etc.)
Product intelligence is mostly ephemeral - it is useful for a short time, then decreases in importance over time. Think of a report that a Russian warship was seen at point A an hour ago. Knowing the warship, through collection of data over time, the technical experts know normal cruising and flank speeds. So, from an hour ago, you have a certain radius within which the ship almost certainly still exists and can still be used for targeting. But that info in ten hours is less precise, less useful, and within not too many hours, almost meaningless.
An example could be the Russian preparations to invade Ukraine. The reports that Trump got, whether short, concise segments of the Presidential Daily Brief, or longer, specific reports, were almost certainly product. This would have been washed through multiple analysts from multiple sources (think of an evening news show with a single anchor orchestrating the presentation of various field reporters and expert commentators regarding a single event).
So, Trump's notional Russian invasion prep report would draw on various "sources and methods". Let's posit 3:
- national assets
- ELINT Electronic Intelligence assets
- HUMINT Human Intelligence assets
In English:
- satellite collected data
- radio intercept data
- spy data
Processed intel is very carefully combed to remove the source of data. E.g., any photos of a Russian tank park taken from a satellite would be obscured, blurred, reduced in fidelity to hide the real capabilities of the satellite camera, time of day / angle to hide which specific satellite might have been used, etc. This would be true for the President - there simply was no point to explaining to him "This untouched photo was taken from Satellite X's Foottrack camera at 10:47:30h from point XYZ over the Black Sea, transmitted through ABC frequency through relay at Ice Station Zebra arriving at HQ 0.58 seconds later on the workstation of Analyst Schweik an hour ago..." The photo would be processed to hide those details, to be supported by other electronic measures, and perhaps even verified by a human asset on the ground.
BTW, the 'nuke secrets documents' canard? While I never held Q (nuke weapons) clearance, my understanding is that it is primarily a stand alone nuclear weapons technology classification.
For example, as a military operations planner (the spooks worked for us, btw), the plans section in which I worked needed a number of planners who knew the existence and availability to our command of certain tactical nuclear weapons, their capabilities, delivery systems, command and control mechanisms, prep times required, any number of factors in order to make effective operations plans. (In fact, once by accident, I got an entire box full of the field operator's manual for a class of certain type of nuclear weapon - they were not even classified.)
But the technical design details of that weapon would never be in normal SECRET or TOP SECRET classification documents - it is segregated in another classification system all together. As I had no 'need to know' how that weapon worked, or the material used, the technical guy working on the device had no 'need to know' how I might be planning to use the weapon - very few people had clearances spanning both sides of that void.
Anyhow, the subject is very complex, and until we know very precisely what Trump held, the complexity is driving a lot of pointless speculation.
Turley comments on sweeping language of warrant, seizure of privileged docs:
https://jonathanturley.org/2022/08/14/justice-department-accused-of-taking-attorney-client-material-at-mar-a-lago/
How long can the doj keep all this bottled up in the courts?
Or is the right question how long do they want to keep it bottled up?
How long to its “old news”. Another Clinton tactic was delay till a scandal became old news.
My guess is through the midterms, and the Biden Administration did not expect the blowback. They thought it was a way to hurt Trump, and the candidates he is backing.
The just subpoenaed the video footage, so now Trump can’t release it:
https://redstate.com/bonchie/2022/08/14/new-media-conspiracy-drops-surrounding-trump-raid-this-time-about-surveillance-footage-n611995
As we await further developments when Pravda and Izvestia publish them!
I cannot believe that this whole disgusting mess is unfolding before our eyes in real time. If anyone here had told me 5 years ago that this is where we would be in this country, I would have said that they were crazier n hell! Little did I know.
Over at PJ Media, Athena Thorne believes the DOJ/FBI/Donkey party plan to arrest Trump. We'll see if they want to wade even deeper into the morass that awaits them if they do. They want the perp-walk and mug shot for photo ops, thinking that will finally kill off their foe who refuses to die a death from their thousand cuts.
https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/athena-thorne/2022/08/13/yes-theyre-going-to-arrest-donald-trump-deal-with-it-n1620780
I had forgotten about Trump's RICO lawsuit, but it does seem to be in play now.
The Dyer rationale for the raid makes more sense than anything else I have read, particularly given the timing. And to think, I never knew that the defendant in a civil trial no longer has to make requests for the production of documents as part of Discovery... they can simply raid the plaintiff's house for the documents! What a wonderful legal system we have! What a country!
Thanks for your take on the classification issue, Mark.
Isn’t this fun! That at least makes sense.