That would be the Kiev Patriots we’re referring to. They had a busy night in Kiev last night, appearing to have fired off 30 of the top US air defense missiles—the Patriot. Each Patriot missile goes for something like $5.25 million apiece, for a total—in less than two minutes—of around $160 million up in smoke, so to speak. But here’s the thing about the Patriot system—nobody really knows how effective they are, or even IF they can be considered effective (a bit like, we still don’t really know what happened to those four Russian aircraft last week). I found an article that explains the uncertainties, but one thing to keep in mind—Patriots, like all anti-missile surface to air missile (SAM) systems, are not 100% effective (probably not close to that) and so
Simplicius mentioned after the attack there was an emergency meeting in Nato, because basically they realized The Emperor has no clothes. Patriot seems to have major defects, especially when facing Russian Electronic Countermeasures. Ukraine even arrested 8 bloggers, and shut off street cams. Basically trying to censor any negative information.
Simplicius mentioned now the Western Narrative is being changed to losses will happen. He only had a screenshot, unfortunately.
Actual link:
The Patriot System Isn’t Magic, Losses In Ukraine Can Be Expected
The Patriot has done a phenomenal job during its short service in Ukraine, but it was always going to be Russia’s top target.
And read the comments! Very pro narrative, Ukraine is doing amazing, Russia is almost out of weapons, etc.
So who, what, and where is The Drive?
It’s part of the Gawker Media Group, under Gizmodo. Io9 of gamergate fame was part of it. Basically very to the Left. See authors bio, and lack of military experience.
Part of whatever effectiveness Patriot may have--I'm no expert--is in being part of a larger effective AD system. That is clearly not the case in Ukraine--the Ukraine AD system has been under siege from the start, or playing a guerrilla warfare game against aggressive Russian attempts to search out and destroy. The fact that the KInzhal got through--whatever the damage inflicted--is very bad news for Patriot survival. The expense and attrition of such a scarce commodity that's our best is a real blow.
Western Efforts on an effective anti drone, aircraft, and missile systems have been lagging. While China and Russia have invested in ways to defeat those efforts.
I assume that this was simply an initial Russian probing attack on the Patriot system. Patriots are only intended to protect specific high value targets. I was surprised that they weren't used at the big ammo dump that was taken out. Russian MoD is claiming five Patriot launchers destroyed--highly specific claim.
Each battery includes a couple of launchers, each of which has a up to 16 missiles. Plus the radar and control.
My understanding is Ukraine got two batteries, one from Germany, one from the US. Total cost of each is a billion dollars.
This attack seemed to have been aimed to take out the patriot battery, with lots of different components.
I don’t think the us is set up to defend against this type of operation. Against occasional missiles, yes. Against a first world military such as China or Russia, no.
"These indicators are inaccurate. In the Gulf War, many of the targets turned out to be debris from the poorly designed Scuds as they broke up in flight. At least 45 percent of the 158 Patriots launched in the war were launched against debris or false targets, the Army reported."
When this problem became apparent, there was a hasty rewrite of the software. The warhead fell faster than the debris due to air resistance. (The warhead was heavier.) Most of the actual warhead kills came late in the war, after the software had been rewritten.
Patriot has an actual combat record that can be examined. We have a pretty good idea of what they will and won't do. In fact they work quite well for what they were designed to do. There's a limit to how fast a target can be coming in. ICBMs exceed that limit and hypersonics probably exceed it. (I regard all Ukraine news as fake until proven otherwise. Claims that a Patriot brought down hypersonic missiles have not been made by any news source I actually trust. We'll see what we see.) They are quite effective against a wide range of battlefield missiles and they have proven their effectiveness against NATO aircraft in occasional IFF screwups.
The general rule with weapons of this type is that an interceptor costs more than the missile it intercepts, because it ends up having to do kore, so all missile defense systems are subject to being swamped by numbers. NATO's ultimate plan for dealing with Russian missiles in the event of a war was to seize air superiority and then destroy those missiles on the ground. Which would have required finding them, which proved to be God's own job in the Gulf.
I’ve read each battery holds 16 missiles. Hence two batteries in play yesterday. I’ve also read where US and EU members have sent 30+ plus batteries to Ukraine.
The Kinzhal itself is definitely expensive, which is why Russia uses them sparingly, for special targets that require them. Their MoD said as much in their statement today. OTOH, the decoys probably aren't nearly as expensive. On defense, the AD system can't fire decoys--has to be the real thing, so, defense is, in that sense, more expensive than offense.
It's a bit more complicated than just 'do they work?' They may work against some militaries, but not against a top notch one like Russia has in the EW and missile fields.
The Democrats hate our Veterans, they fund the parasites at the ADL who giddily doxxed them. They prefer the criminal illegal aliens who will happily murder our homeless Vets. It's a vicious cycle and the weak Republicans are allowing it.
Since the Pope allowed Ze to enter the Vatican and his presence with that grungy t-shirt with Nazi symbols AND did not say ONE word about Ze rampage, burning destruction of Orthodox churches , persecution of priests and parishioners...me thinks the Pope would not be a good choice as mediator.
The Communist Pope doesn't give a damn about the carnage Biden/NATO/Zelensky are causing. Why aren't the kids in Victoria Nuland and every bureaucrat's family who is in agreement with this aggression against Russia being sacrificed in Ukraine? We must demand that they sacrifice their children first, not other people's, if they want to start wars.
On the Duran today, Christoforou went on a tear about the meeting in Rome, the total almost manic disrespect shown by Z - one of the rare occasions I’ve seen him show real raw anger. Seething.
Not a good look when combined with the depleted uranium shells for start of Charles reign. One wonders if he is even informed and has input into these desicions.
Literally just now British news media are reporting that both Putin and Zelensky have agreed to meet African leaders in Moscow and Kiev to discuss peace plans.
Zelensky was in Britain yesterday. Where he is today I don't know but this announcement makes PM Sunak look a bit stupid since the big announcement yesterday was UK to train Ukr pilots on F16s...
Excellent analysis of attack, including Patriot Missiles:
Anatomy of MIM-104 Patriot Destruction + Primer on Kinzhal Hypersonic Missile
SIMPLICIUS THE THINKER
https://simplicius76.substack.com/p/anatomy-of-mim-104-patriot-destruction?utm_source=%2Finbox&utm_medium=reader2
Simplicius mentioned after the attack there was an emergency meeting in Nato, because basically they realized The Emperor has no clothes. Patriot seems to have major defects, especially when facing Russian Electronic Countermeasures. Ukraine even arrested 8 bloggers, and shut off street cams. Basically trying to censor any negative information.
Simplicius mentioned now the Western Narrative is being changed to losses will happen. He only had a screenshot, unfortunately.
Actual link:
The Patriot System Isn’t Magic, Losses In Ukraine Can Be Expected
The Patriot has done a phenomenal job during its short service in Ukraine, but it was always going to be Russia’s top target.
BY
TYLER ROGOWAY
The Drive Warzone
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/the-patriot-system-isnt-magic-losses-in-ukraine-can-be-expected
And read the comments! Very pro narrative, Ukraine is doing amazing, Russia is almost out of weapons, etc.
So who, what, and where is The Drive?
It’s part of the Gawker Media Group, under Gizmodo. Io9 of gamergate fame was part of it. Basically very to the Left. See authors bio, and lack of military experience.
https://twitter.com/Aviation_Intel
Part of whatever effectiveness Patriot may have--I'm no expert--is in being part of a larger effective AD system. That is clearly not the case in Ukraine--the Ukraine AD system has been under siege from the start, or playing a guerrilla warfare game against aggressive Russian attempts to search out and destroy. The fact that the KInzhal got through--whatever the damage inflicted--is very bad news for Patriot survival. The expense and attrition of such a scarce commodity that's our best is a real blow.
Western Efforts on an effective anti drone, aircraft, and missile systems have been lagging. While China and Russia have invested in ways to defeat those efforts.
I assume that this was simply an initial Russian probing attack on the Patriot system. Patriots are only intended to protect specific high value targets. I was surprised that they weren't used at the big ammo dump that was taken out. Russian MoD is claiming five Patriot launchers destroyed--highly specific claim.
Each battery includes a couple of launchers, each of which has a up to 16 missiles. Plus the radar and control.
My understanding is Ukraine got two batteries, one from Germany, one from the US. Total cost of each is a billion dollars.
This attack seemed to have been aimed to take out the patriot battery, with lots of different components.
I don’t think the us is set up to defend against this type of operation. Against occasional missiles, yes. Against a first world military such as China or Russia, no.
"These indicators are inaccurate. In the Gulf War, many of the targets turned out to be debris from the poorly designed Scuds as they broke up in flight. At least 45 percent of the 158 Patriots launched in the war were launched against debris or false targets, the Army reported."
When this problem became apparent, there was a hasty rewrite of the software. The warhead fell faster than the debris due to air resistance. (The warhead was heavier.) Most of the actual warhead kills came late in the war, after the software had been rewritten.
Patriot has an actual combat record that can be examined. We have a pretty good idea of what they will and won't do. In fact they work quite well for what they were designed to do. There's a limit to how fast a target can be coming in. ICBMs exceed that limit and hypersonics probably exceed it. (I regard all Ukraine news as fake until proven otherwise. Claims that a Patriot brought down hypersonic missiles have not been made by any news source I actually trust. We'll see what we see.) They are quite effective against a wide range of battlefield missiles and they have proven their effectiveness against NATO aircraft in occasional IFF screwups.
The general rule with weapons of this type is that an interceptor costs more than the missile it intercepts, because it ends up having to do kore, so all missile defense systems are subject to being swamped by numbers. NATO's ultimate plan for dealing with Russian missiles in the event of a war was to seize air superiority and then destroy those missiles on the ground. Which would have required finding them, which proved to be God's own job in the Gulf.
Well, it appears the Patriot system successfully detonated a hypersonic missile in Kiev, unfortunately it died in the blast.
Picture I saw of the intercepted missile was of a sewer pipe.
My Gut feeling is there is a lots of lies on success of Missile Interceptions using Western Technology.
http://smoothiex12.blogspot.com/2023/05/confirmation-by-russian-mod.html
I’ve read each battery holds 16 missiles. Hence two batteries in play yesterday. I’ve also read where US and EU members have sent 30+ plus batteries to Ukraine.
I wonder whether any of those were at Khmelnitsky? They say there were a lot of SAMs there.
So according to the Ukraine, the Patriots are "Safe and effective"???
LOL!
I wonder how much the Russian Missiles involved cost?
My Swag - under $20 million
Assuming the Russian hypersonic missiles are $3 million each plus drones.
US cost $162 million
The Kinzhal itself is definitely expensive, which is why Russia uses them sparingly, for special targets that require them. Their MoD said as much in their statement today. OTOH, the decoys probably aren't nearly as expensive. On defense, the AD system can't fire decoys--has to be the real thing, so, defense is, in that sense, more expensive than offense.
And with news today Russian oil and gas exports surpassing their previous high in Feb 2022. $$$
Do you think that after all is said and done in the Ukraine that we might discover that the Wunderwaffen we’ve spent trillions on just don’t work?
It's a bit more complicated than just 'do they work?' They may work against some militaries, but not against a top notch one like Russia has in the EW and missile fields.
The real cost is that of lives, ruined and ended, which never should have been. Totally pointless and unnecessary, not our finest moment as a country.
Like kicking homeless vets out of their quarters to allow migrants to move in.
The Democrats hate our Veterans, they fund the parasites at the ADL who giddily doxxed them. They prefer the criminal illegal aliens who will happily murder our homeless Vets. It's a vicious cycle and the weak Republicans are allowing it.
Looks like MoD has confirmed that the Russians took out some Storm Shadow missiles as well.
It is very likely that the crew of the Patriot battery were US/NATO personnel. It follows they were killed at the point of the Patriots destruction.
I read that these Patriot batteries are manned with about 70 personnel.
http://smoothiex12.blogspot.com/2023/05/in-related-news.html?m=1
Sickening. And Zelensky, in his fake (H/T Rascal Nick of) army fatigues, tells Pope Francis he doesn’t need a mediator…
Since the Pope allowed Ze to enter the Vatican and his presence with that grungy t-shirt with Nazi symbols AND did not say ONE word about Ze rampage, burning destruction of Orthodox churches , persecution of priests and parishioners...me thinks the Pope would not be a good choice as mediator.
How about a good choice for dog catcher? Uh, nope.
The Communist Pope doesn't give a damn about the carnage Biden/NATO/Zelensky are causing. Why aren't the kids in Victoria Nuland and every bureaucrat's family who is in agreement with this aggression against Russia being sacrificed in Ukraine? We must demand that they sacrifice their children first, not other people's, if they want to start wars.
Ha!
On the Duran today, Christoforou went on a tear about the meeting in Rome, the total almost manic disrespect shown by Z - one of the rare occasions I’ve seen him show real raw anger. Seething.
Yes! He was on Fire !!He is usually very measured but he was visibly outraged.
https://www.moonofalabama.org/2023/05/ukraine-air-defense-lessons-.html#more
Good info, including in comments.
Including Russia reports that it shot down a bunch (7?) Storm Shadows.
Not a good look when combined with the depleted uranium shells for start of Charles reign. One wonders if he is even informed and has input into these desicions.
Definitely not good for the environment🤔🙄
http://smoothiex12.blogspot.com/2023/05/in-related-news.html?m=1
Literally just now British news media are reporting that both Putin and Zelensky have agreed to meet African leaders in Moscow and Kiev to discuss peace plans.
Zelensky was in Britain yesterday. Where he is today I don't know but this announcement makes PM Sunak look a bit stupid since the big announcement yesterday was UK to train Ukr pilots on F16s...
What is going on?
Probably the media making stuff up again
Impeach them all. Hang the others.
This morning from Andrei Martyanov (smoothie)
His books are Excellent by the way
He is working on his 4th.
http://smoothiex12.blogspot.com/2023/05/i-want-to-remindf-everyone.html?m=1
How effective is Patriot vs, say, an S-300 as an AD weapon?
http://smoothiex12.blogspot.com/2023/05/i-want-to-remindf-everyone.html?m=1
Thanks.
Somebody is making money.
That's the point, right?
Effing insanity