For many of us there seems to be no lack of reasons to be depressed about the state of the world. Where to turn for relief? Psychiatrists often prescribe SSRIs—Selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors. Better living through chemistry—brain chemistry!Thanks for reading Meaning In History! Subscribe for free to receive new posts and support my work.
It seems to me that we make a fundamental mistake when considering mental illness, which is to assume that all thought is organic, and emanates from organic grey matter, arrayed with the proper chemicals, electrical pathways and so forth. But what about the mind? The word 'mind' is needed, because there are aspects of human thought that are non-material. How does an infant recognize its parent's face? What makes bee or ant colonies operate as if they shared a mind? Why does the third generation of Monarch butterflies emerge from cocoons in Canada and decide to fly to Mexico, and how do they arrive there unerringly, even though they've never been there before? There is more to life than matter, and there is more that matters than physical things. It seems to me that since the mind is inorganic, and the mind is what has gotten off track in depression, that maybe the idea of treating it organically is nuts.
Reading your posts and insightful, valiant commentary Mark always boosts my ( and other readers’!) serotonin levels! I have to say though that that last one from AmThinker on JRB’s pact with the devil, so to speak, was a real downer…imagine getting Bernie into the Oval Office in the form of this nasty non-entity…anyway, on the subject you raise, I offer an excellent discussion and recommendations on treating depression ( low sero and dopa levels) from Dr Jockers’ website. He is planted firmly in the science and clinical experience, is readable, understandable to the non-specialist. He gets the gut/brain connection (microbiome) -and the other essential nutrients that so many may be deficient in! He points out that SSRI’s can be of use periodically, but are not a good strategy for long-term use. Cheers!
I went through severe depression in high school nearly 50 years ago. It was horrible and I don't know how I ever came out of it but by the grace of God. It seems very common for adolescents to go through so that suggests possibly hormonal imbalances?
My mother also went through severe depression, during the late '70s. A move and total change of life brought it on. She suffered for about 18 months before she was finally convinced to see a doctor. He gave her SOMETHING that worked wonders and brought her out of it almost immediately. I have wondered and wished I knew what that was all of these years because since then she has periodic episodes of milder depression and the docs only prescribe SSRIs, which have not worked for her. I do believe it is systemic and chemical but like all drugs everybody reacts differently. Does anybody know what they used to prescribe back in the '70s?
I have recently concluded that for the most part, western medicine as practiced by MD's in the US is a menace to society. A fake shaman dressed in a white coat speaking mumbo jumbo gleaned from a prestigious journal will not trusted by yours truly anymore. Brushing my ponies wards off my minor depression brought on by current events.
How about as a start we 1) eliminate all pharma advertising and 2) we make it a serious felony for pharma to provide drug samples to doctors or pharmacists--or for doctors or pharmacists to accept drug samples? Big Pharma and tobacco--nomomojo.
Okay, small voice of experience here. Been on a SSRI since 2015 (this is the second time - first time was 2003 - 2010). It works for me. By works, I mean I am able to continue being a fairly pleasant, productive member of society. Respectfully, people who have not had to deal with depression personally probably should not try to speculate on motives or give advice. I am a Christian and really have nothing to be depressed about, which is the most frustrating part. (And FYI, Christians are the worst for dealing with depressed friends.) Telling me to "just have more faith" and "just be strong in the Lord" and just suck it up are not helpful when I'm struggling in a dark abyss that I didn't make or ask for.
So if a chemical imbalance is not the cause, but the meds seem to work for many people (at least for now - believe me, I have doubts about what's really in all meds these days), what's the problem and why are we talking about this? Yes, they're over-prescribed, but I'm glad they're there. Being able to function for my family and my church are really important to me, so I deal with it the best way I can.
I have never experienced what I would call a "high" unless that means being able to climb up out of the black hole I was in. I found "Trouble of Mind and the Disease of Melancholy" by the Puritan preacher, Timothy Rogers (1658-1752), very helpful. during the first bout. His chapter on what not to say to your depressed friends is still relevant today.
Thanks for sharing your perspective. I had the opportunity to go through one of those mental health out patient experiences that tried to teach CBT (Cognitive Behavioral Therapy) techniques as a way to lead a better life less incumbered with depression and anxiety. They considered the medication as an acute "mend" that, at some point, you'd no longer need.
Had that same experience, here's people suffering rape trauma and self harm and suicide of family members and hard addictions, why do I have anxiety.
Have the grace to forgive yourself if you have a bad day. And nothing lasts forever.
My step-mom and MIL both had heart surgery. Apparently, people who have heart surgery often get depressed afterwards so they are automatically prescribed prozac. Ten years (step mom) and six years (MIL) later they are both on it. I asked them why and neither of them had a reason. I think many people just assume the doctor knows best.
I believe it does, in my experience anyway. This is way in the past, so no victim story here, but I experienced severe "clinical" depressions in my early adulthood as a result of unresolved childhood trauma. Pits of hell stuff. At one point I was prescribed Prozac and within hours (they say it takes a week or two to kick in, but that wasn't my experience) I felt like it was some kind of miracle. Lifted me right up and I went along fine for several weeks- until the inevitable "side effects" piper came calling with a huge bill. Years later, I realized it had been exactly like taking a form of speed.
It seems to me that we make a fundamental mistake when considering mental illness, which is to assume that all thought is organic, and emanates from organic grey matter, arrayed with the proper chemicals, electrical pathways and so forth. But what about the mind? The word 'mind' is needed, because there are aspects of human thought that are non-material. How does an infant recognize its parent's face? What makes bee or ant colonies operate as if they shared a mind? Why does the third generation of Monarch butterflies emerge from cocoons in Canada and decide to fly to Mexico, and how do they arrive there unerringly, even though they've never been there before? There is more to life than matter, and there is more that matters than physical things. It seems to me that since the mind is inorganic, and the mind is what has gotten off track in depression, that maybe the idea of treating it organically is nuts.
Reading your posts and insightful, valiant commentary Mark always boosts my ( and other readers’!) serotonin levels! I have to say though that that last one from AmThinker on JRB’s pact with the devil, so to speak, was a real downer…imagine getting Bernie into the Oval Office in the form of this nasty non-entity…anyway, on the subject you raise, I offer an excellent discussion and recommendations on treating depression ( low sero and dopa levels) from Dr Jockers’ website. He is planted firmly in the science and clinical experience, is readable, understandable to the non-specialist. He gets the gut/brain connection (microbiome) -and the other essential nutrients that so many may be deficient in! He points out that SSRI’s can be of use periodically, but are not a good strategy for long-term use. Cheers!
https://drjockers.com/low-serotonin-levels/
Sounds interesting--the nutrition connection. I'll check it out.
I went through severe depression in high school nearly 50 years ago. It was horrible and I don't know how I ever came out of it but by the grace of God. It seems very common for adolescents to go through so that suggests possibly hormonal imbalances?
My mother also went through severe depression, during the late '70s. A move and total change of life brought it on. She suffered for about 18 months before she was finally convinced to see a doctor. He gave her SOMETHING that worked wonders and brought her out of it almost immediately. I have wondered and wished I knew what that was all of these years because since then she has periodic episodes of milder depression and the docs only prescribe SSRIs, which have not worked for her. I do believe it is systemic and chemical but like all drugs everybody reacts differently. Does anybody know what they used to prescribe back in the '70s?
I have recently concluded that for the most part, western medicine as practiced by MD's in the US is a menace to society. A fake shaman dressed in a white coat speaking mumbo jumbo gleaned from a prestigious journal will not trusted by yours truly anymore. Brushing my ponies wards off my minor depression brought on by current events.
No appts in 3 years. For good or ill. I guess that lets you know how I feel...
No appointments in 7 years for me. Before covid I just thought of them as unnecessary. Now I feel that many "doctors" are downright dangerous.
How about as a start we 1) eliminate all pharma advertising and 2) we make it a serious felony for pharma to provide drug samples to doctors or pharmacists--or for doctors or pharmacists to accept drug samples? Big Pharma and tobacco--nomomojo.
BUT. . . BUT, without all the pharma ads how would TV news be financially viable?
Yep Mark, that’s right. Nothing to see here, let’s just keep it moving.
Okay, small voice of experience here. Been on a SSRI since 2015 (this is the second time - first time was 2003 - 2010). It works for me. By works, I mean I am able to continue being a fairly pleasant, productive member of society. Respectfully, people who have not had to deal with depression personally probably should not try to speculate on motives or give advice. I am a Christian and really have nothing to be depressed about, which is the most frustrating part. (And FYI, Christians are the worst for dealing with depressed friends.) Telling me to "just have more faith" and "just be strong in the Lord" and just suck it up are not helpful when I'm struggling in a dark abyss that I didn't make or ask for.
So if a chemical imbalance is not the cause, but the meds seem to work for many people (at least for now - believe me, I have doubts about what's really in all meds these days), what's the problem and why are we talking about this? Yes, they're over-prescribed, but I'm glad they're there. Being able to function for my family and my church are really important to me, so I deal with it the best way I can.
I have never experienced what I would call a "high" unless that means being able to climb up out of the black hole I was in. I found "Trouble of Mind and the Disease of Melancholy" by the Puritan preacher, Timothy Rogers (1658-1752), very helpful. during the first bout. His chapter on what not to say to your depressed friends is still relevant today.
Thanks for sharing your perspective. I had the opportunity to go through one of those mental health out patient experiences that tried to teach CBT (Cognitive Behavioral Therapy) techniques as a way to lead a better life less incumbered with depression and anxiety. They considered the medication as an acute "mend" that, at some point, you'd no longer need.
Had that same experience, here's people suffering rape trauma and self harm and suicide of family members and hard addictions, why do I have anxiety.
Have the grace to forgive yourself if you have a bad day. And nothing lasts forever.
Perspective is everything.
My step-mom and MIL both had heart surgery. Apparently, people who have heart surgery often get depressed afterwards so they are automatically prescribed prozac. Ten years (step mom) and six years (MIL) later they are both on it. I asked them why and neither of them had a reason. I think many people just assume the doctor knows best.
Does serotonin produce a "high"??
I believe it does, in my experience anyway. This is way in the past, so no victim story here, but I experienced severe "clinical" depressions in my early adulthood as a result of unresolved childhood trauma. Pits of hell stuff. At one point I was prescribed Prozac and within hours (they say it takes a week or two to kick in, but that wasn't my experience) I felt like it was some kind of miracle. Lifted me right up and I went along fine for several weeks- until the inevitable "side effects" piper came calling with a huge bill. Years later, I realized it had been exactly like taking a form of speed.