In the sense of something suspicious, not right, hinky, uncomfortable. How is it that for more than 40 years before WW II various writers were talking about 6 million Jews in a variety of contexts? Were did this number come from? Then, magically, when the German camps were discovered, the 6 million number pops up again as the number of Jews that were killed in the camps. It has the sense that a pre-existing number was just applied in a new context, without any basis in fact. Then, after WW II, there was an intense effort to count up the deaths to prove that the 6 million number is the true tally of the number of Jews killed by the Germans, rather than an apocryphal number that found a new use.
6 million was the estimate of the Jewish population in Europe. I did read that link, and while 6M shows up repeatedly, there are also other numbers. Why would the 6M number remain consistent for 40 years. One reason might be out migration--massive Jewish emigration from its core areas in the areas of the former Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, especially to North America and Russia proper. As I wrote in a comment, the use of 6M for the Final Solution total is a careless assumption that the Nazis basically killed virtually all Jews. OTOH, this careless assumption should not lead to reckless low balling such as Irving engaged in: 200-300K.
I basically agree with you in questioning the canonical belief that all 6 million Jews were killed by the Germans. However, I don't quite understand what you mean by this:
"Why would the 6M number remain consistent for 40 years. One reason might be out migration...."
Because the traditional Jewish populations in the eastern areas had very high birth rates. But for out migration the population would have grown to be far more than postulated 6M over the course of 40 years. Those emigrating are drawn heavily from younger generations.
Someone might ask why I would take the time, amid all the current horrors, to challenge the Oct. 7th Hamas rape allegation. It's because I think the Hamas rape allegation is -- going by the available evidence -- a blood libel used to justify the ongoing genocide.
When it comes to Israel's claims of Hamas rape, there are no identified victims, dead or alive; no forensic and physical evidence; and no visual evidence. There are only claims by discredited witnesses that have fallen apart under minimal scrutiny -- the exact same thing that happened with Israel's atrocity propaganda of dozens of beheaded babies.
Debunked and evidence-free allegations should not be left unchallenged, especially when they're being used to justify actual and ongoing atrocities.
Bravo Mr. Wauck. I applaud your commitment to seeking the truth and for reaching down to the likes of us with what you find. May you be blessed with many more years.
That's because they didn't sink it. If it had been sunk, it would have gone from extreme embarrassment that the press refuses to even mention to cause celebre. Look at what those horrible arabs did!!!!!
I mean, just 3 year before they pulled another variation on this with the USS Maddox, telling everyone the VC had attacked a shipt that was never attacked.
Old article, but still relevant. Trump has to get elected first. And campaign contributions are key.
And Trump is causing a lot of headaches in the Democratic Party with his Israel rhetoric.
Just noting. Biden has a Jewish Daughter in law (Hunter). Kamala's Husband is Jewish. Trump has a Jewish son in law. What are the chances, with Jews being supposedly 2.5% of the US population?
“Even though the Republican Party is more pro-Israel than ever, and sometimes more ‘pro-Israel’ (however you define that) than the Democratic Party, American Jewish liberalism has become a mentality, a sensibility, an ideology, a cultural identity.”
In the U.S., the vast majority of Jews have been secular and liberal. Now we have a situation where the Israeli government and perhaps even a majority of its people are conservative and religious, and eschatological. Will the U.S. Jews identify with that "Greater Israel" and the return of the Messiah? To what extent do they even recognize their differences with the Israelis at this point? It would be good to have some polls.
So, the question is: Trump is currently playing on American Jewish loyalty and concern for Israel. To what extent does that even exist? Maybe for Miriam Adelson and some of the other large donors but what about the general American Jewish population?
My guess is Israel is very worried about the continued secularization of Jews in the US, and how they are diverging from the Jews in Israel in how religious they are.
My guess Israel is using the Holocaust as a lever on the American Psyche, as well as using language (Judeo Christian), lots of targeted funding in primaries to keep politicians in line, a bit of black mail (Epstein), a bit of wire tapping, targeting of US Military that visit Israel, and a campaign for winning more fundamentalist Christian leaders.
They are still going after Tucker Carlson for daring to interview a historian that did not mention the Holocaust. I think Ed Driscoll of PJ Media is up to 5 articles on this, Powerline was at 8. Unz had a troubling article I am still digesting, especially his comments on Churchill and David Irving. https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-tucker-carlson-darryl-cooper-and-holocaust-denial/
I'm not a fan of Ferguson, but I find myself agreeing with his assessment of Cooper, as previously discussed. That said, I repeat, I'm not a fan of Ferguson, who often uses his standing as an historian who has published books to cover for far more dubious opinion publishing.
Nor do I follow Unz's voluminous writing, but I find myself agreeing with his assessment of the David Irving case as well as his assessment of Churchill.
The phenomenon of popular podcasting is worth examining. What I'm not sure Tucker was right to do was presenting what seems to me to have been a rather uncritical view of Cooper as a serious revisionist historian. Ferguson, whatever his merits and demerits, is right to question Cooper's lack of sourcing--because Cooper surely does rely on sources, and not original research. The history of the world wars is ripe for revision, but one wants to know where the revisionists are coming from. That said, the charge of "holocaust denier" leveled obsessively at Cooper appears to be largely false, although I've already questioned Cooper's claim that what most believe was organized Nazi killing (Einsatzgruppen, later death camps) was due to poor organization for dealing with vast numbers of conquered peoples. I would certainly not recommend Cooper's podcasting. At other times I've written about Pat Buchanan's tendentious Germanophile views, which Cooper seems to rely upon.
Ray, I will read Unz's typically very long--but also typically very well written--article. Let me add this. Both Irving and Cooper are Churchill critics. However, between the two--one of whom relies on Buchanan and the other of whom is a major historian who conducted original research on a massive scale--I'll go with Irving.
For the record, I'm not a denier of the Nazi Final Solution against the Jews as usually understood. One can quibble over the numbers--was it 5.5 million or 6 million--but the number seems to be in that ballpark. Also, the sentence "It is an almost universally accepted truth that 6,000,000 jewish people died at the hands of 1 evil man" looks to me like a deliberate misrepresentation. I won't tolerate that here.
I'm familiar with the name Stew Peters but, to my recollection, have never read or viewed anything of his. The idea that the short video clip of Bishop Williamson that Peters tweeted is in any way "useful" is absurd.
Funny how that 6 million number keeps popping up - all the way back to 1900.
https://www.minds.com/ZUGZWANG1939/blog/246-newspaper-articles-about-6-000-000-jews-from-1900-1945-1037772629545177088
What's funny about that?
In the sense of something suspicious, not right, hinky, uncomfortable. How is it that for more than 40 years before WW II various writers were talking about 6 million Jews in a variety of contexts? Were did this number come from? Then, magically, when the German camps were discovered, the 6 million number pops up again as the number of Jews that were killed in the camps. It has the sense that a pre-existing number was just applied in a new context, without any basis in fact. Then, after WW II, there was an intense effort to count up the deaths to prove that the 6 million number is the true tally of the number of Jews killed by the Germans, rather than an apocryphal number that found a new use.
6 million was the estimate of the Jewish population in Europe. I did read that link, and while 6M shows up repeatedly, there are also other numbers. Why would the 6M number remain consistent for 40 years. One reason might be out migration--massive Jewish emigration from its core areas in the areas of the former Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, especially to North America and Russia proper. As I wrote in a comment, the use of 6M for the Final Solution total is a careless assumption that the Nazis basically killed virtually all Jews. OTOH, this careless assumption should not lead to reckless low balling such as Irving engaged in: 200-300K.
I basically agree with you in questioning the canonical belief that all 6 million Jews were killed by the Germans. However, I don't quite understand what you mean by this:
"Why would the 6M number remain consistent for 40 years. One reason might be out migration...."
Why would out migration keep the number at 6M?
Because the traditional Jewish populations in the eastern areas had very high birth rates. But for out migration the population would have grown to be far more than postulated 6M over the course of 40 years. Those emigrating are drawn heavily from younger generations.
Aaron Maté @aaronjmate
Someone might ask why I would take the time, amid all the current horrors, to challenge the Oct. 7th Hamas rape allegation. It's because I think the Hamas rape allegation is -- going by the available evidence -- a blood libel used to justify the ongoing genocide.
When it comes to Israel's claims of Hamas rape, there are no identified victims, dead or alive; no forensic and physical evidence; and no visual evidence. There are only claims by discredited witnesses that have fallen apart under minimal scrutiny -- the exact same thing that happened with Israel's atrocity propaganda of dozens of beheaded babies.
Debunked and evidence-free allegations should not be left unchallenged, especially when they're being used to justify actual and ongoing atrocities.
3:24 PM · Sep 25, 2024
Bravo Mr. Wauck. I applaud your commitment to seeking the truth and for reaching down to the likes of us with what you find. May you be blessed with many more years.
Zionists are almost like an Occupying Alien Race
I almost burst out laughing at the headline title of this article.
Um, USS Liberty, anyone?
No false flag there. Totally out in the open.
That's because they didn't sink it. If it had been sunk, it would have gone from extreme embarrassment that the press refuses to even mention to cause celebre. Look at what those horrible arabs did!!!!!
I mean, just 3 year before they pulled another variation on this with the USS Maddox, telling everyone the VC had attacked a shipt that was never attacked.
…and we’ve gone along, hand-in-glove, with it all.
Old article, but still relevant. Trump has to get elected first. And campaign contributions are key.
And Trump is causing a lot of headaches in the Democratic Party with his Israel rhetoric.
Just noting. Biden has a Jewish Daughter in law (Hunter). Kamala's Husband is Jewish. Trump has a Jewish son in law. What are the chances, with Jews being supposedly 2.5% of the US population?
https://www.jpost.com/US-Elections/US-Jews-contribute-half-of-all-donations-to-the-Democratic-party-468774#google_vignette
“Even though the Republican Party is more pro-Israel than ever, and sometimes more ‘pro-Israel’ (however you define that) than the Democratic Party, American Jewish liberalism has become a mentality, a sensibility, an ideology, a cultural identity.”
In the U.S., the vast majority of Jews have been secular and liberal. Now we have a situation where the Israeli government and perhaps even a majority of its people are conservative and religious, and eschatological. Will the U.S. Jews identify with that "Greater Israel" and the return of the Messiah? To what extent do they even recognize their differences with the Israelis at this point? It would be good to have some polls.
So, the question is: Trump is currently playing on American Jewish loyalty and concern for Israel. To what extent does that even exist? Maybe for Miriam Adelson and some of the other large donors but what about the general American Jewish population?
Israel was doing the free trips for 18-26 year old Jews, 850,000 have done so. https://www.birthrightisrael.com/
My guess is Israel is very worried about the continued secularization of Jews in the US, and how they are diverging from the Jews in Israel in how religious they are.
My guess Israel is using the Holocaust as a lever on the American Psyche, as well as using language (Judeo Christian), lots of targeted funding in primaries to keep politicians in line, a bit of black mail (Epstein), a bit of wire tapping, targeting of US Military that visit Israel, and a campaign for winning more fundamentalist Christian leaders.
They are still going after Tucker Carlson for daring to interview a historian that did not mention the Holocaust. I think Ed Driscoll of PJ Media is up to 5 articles on this, Powerline was at 8. Unz had a troubling article I am still digesting, especially his comments on Churchill and David Irving. https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-tucker-carlson-darryl-cooper-and-holocaust-denial/
I'm not a fan of Ferguson, but I find myself agreeing with his assessment of Cooper, as previously discussed. That said, I repeat, I'm not a fan of Ferguson, who often uses his standing as an historian who has published books to cover for far more dubious opinion publishing.
Nor do I follow Unz's voluminous writing, but I find myself agreeing with his assessment of the David Irving case as well as his assessment of Churchill.
The phenomenon of popular podcasting is worth examining. What I'm not sure Tucker was right to do was presenting what seems to me to have been a rather uncritical view of Cooper as a serious revisionist historian. Ferguson, whatever his merits and demerits, is right to question Cooper's lack of sourcing--because Cooper surely does rely on sources, and not original research. The history of the world wars is ripe for revision, but one wants to know where the revisionists are coming from. That said, the charge of "holocaust denier" leveled obsessively at Cooper appears to be largely false, although I've already questioned Cooper's claim that what most believe was organized Nazi killing (Einsatzgruppen, later death camps) was due to poor organization for dealing with vast numbers of conquered peoples. I would certainly not recommend Cooper's podcasting. At other times I've written about Pat Buchanan's tendentious Germanophile views, which Cooper seems to rely upon.
Ray, I will read Unz's typically very long--but also typically very well written--article. Let me add this. Both Irving and Cooper are Churchill critics. However, between the two--one of whom relies on Buchanan and the other of whom is a major historian who conducted original research on a massive scale--I'll go with Irving.
For the record, I'm not a denier of the Nazi Final Solution against the Jews as usually understood. One can quibble over the numbers--was it 5.5 million or 6 million--but the number seems to be in that ballpark. Also, the sentence "It is an almost universally accepted truth that 6,000,000 jewish people died at the hands of 1 evil man" looks to me like a deliberate misrepresentation. I won't tolerate that here.
I'm familiar with the name Stew Peters but, to my recollection, have never read or viewed anything of his. The idea that the short video clip of Bishop Williamson that Peters tweeted is in any way "useful" is absurd.
Trumpian hasbara? Revenge a dish served cold? Hope springs eternal.