That’s the only word to describe polling results of American views on the conflict in Ukraine, and America’s role. The results tend to reflect the typically American view that wars are events that happen far away and don’t affect us in the US. Therefore there’s no point in wasting time getting informed with all the historical, cultural, and economic issues that form the background to what’s going on.
A friend forwarded me the following very recent assessment (through an American investment adviser) of the situation in Ukraine. It is 180 degrees the opposite of, for example, Alexander Mercouris' take. Who ya gonna believe?
"I was invited to listen to a private webinar by some very top people involved in military matters re: Ukraine. Without going into details from the call which we were asked not to repeat, their assessment is, Ukraine will win and drive out the Russians. Front line Russian units have been destroyed and battalions worth of tanks, artillery and other weapons were abandoned in the retreat. Slow progress is also being made in the south despite reports saying otherwise. The Russians have severe logistics, tactical and leadership problems. The Ukrainians have shown extraordinary skills and training, and their weapons now are first rate, whereas the Russians are out of top line weapons, and have few remaining first line fighting units. Bottom line, the Russians are losing badly, and have no hope of assembling new forces to put into the battle in any effective way quickly, nor the artillery ammunition to support a major new surge. Their tactics are not effective. Their artillery weapons were fired so much, they are likely no longer usable in many cases. They are going to get driven out. Even if Putin tried to use a battlefield nuke, it will not change the outcome, as those are not mass destruction weapons, and such use will cause Putin to be totally ostracized by everyone. The assumption is, he uses it as a threat, but will not pull the trigger."
The assessment above is largely true - in this moment. It boils down to Russia fighting as "special military operation", vs. Ukraine fighting a "total war". In that case, the latter wins. Eventually. However, this is not over yet. The key problem for Ukraine is that their fighting ability depends on continued support from US and - to much lesser degree - other NATO countries. And not just in terms of military assistance, but also paying teachers, civil servants, keeping infrastructure working. The country is not just bankrupt but needs monthly injection from abroad of few billion euros to keep it going. In addition, its energy infrastructure is slowly being destroyed (at least 2 coal-powered power plants in the last week), and let's not forget Russian gas is still flowing through Ukraine, but can and will be turned off. All as winter is setting in. If massive blackouts happen either EU will have to supply electricity (good luck selling that to EU voters, which are already on the streets, except MSM never reports about that), or face another wave of refugees from Ukraine.
The more I read and reflect, the more I conclude that
1 Ukraine has little incentive to end the war, notwithstanding horrific human loss and domestic insolvency, so long as it is receiving billions of dollars of aid from the US.
2 The recent 'successful' Ukraine offensive around Izium in fact gained little of consequence for Ukraine. It didn't change either sides' odds of success.
3 Russia will not give any concessions in any peace deal; it is done making concessions to the West. Hence Russia has no incentive to end the war.
4 The war will go on indefinitely. It went on in the Middle East for over two decades and simmers today.
5 Neither side will use nuclear weapons, the risk is too great, the reward too small.
6 This is a 'proxy war' for the US. The goal of the US is to weaken Russia and reassert control over NATO/EU.
7 Ukraine and the Ukrainian people are simply game pieces.
8 The ultimate goal and imperative of the US is to assure US global hegemony.
9 The fierce opposition to Trump, to destroy him at all costs, including extra-legal action, is not a function of revulsion to the man. If revulsion were the critical factor there would be no Biden.
10 The opposition is convinced that Trump, a nationalist, would concede US global hegemony in favor of MAGA -- domestic reconstruction -- and outright rejection of globalism.
11 Rejection of globalism is utterly unacceptable to the opposition.
If this were true, Ukrainian TV would be showing no-man’s lands full of destroyed armored vehicles and decomposing corpses on a daily basis, and CNN and the Big 3 would be rebroadcasting them every hour on the hour. As it is, Russia occupies nearly the entirety of the Donbass—it’s announced causus belli—and the entire Ukrainian coastline east of Odessa. And it’s telegram channels are daily showing parades of ambulances from every city west of the front taking Ukrainians back to overstretched ER’s. None of this means the Russians are honest or trustworthy—but the available evidence coming from the theater does not support a Ukrainians are kicking butt hypothesis.
It's exactly the same in the UK. People are just parroting what they read or hear on the BBC. Zero critical thinking. Most are completely ignorant of the 8 years if civil war in UKR. But is it surprising when you consider that the anti Russia propaganda never really stopped, except for maybe 5 minutes in 1989-90. It's going to take a whole lot of deprogramming to reverse such ingrained brainwashing.
William Arkin wrote in Newsweek once about this. I saved a quote but cant find a link to his work.
:...the American way of war has become to make war as invisible as possible, not just because counterterrorism demands some special degree of secrecy, but also because operating in secret—at least secret from the American public—lets the government and the military continue without interference. Neither Congress nor the public has particularly clamored for transparency or an audit, and the national security establishment assumes that the American public doesn't want to know, which is to say that it doesn't want to be bothered by war because it largely doesn't have a stake in what happens and nor is it prepared to sacrifice anyway."
In my experience, the "other side" of the story as represented by Tom Luongo is not getting wide dissemination. If it were to be more widely publicized, I would be willing to bet that most people wouldn't bother to understand it due to the complexity of the topic and as it is occurring 'over there'. You would think the pending collapse of Europe would register more than it has however, especially since it will have huge implications for us...
Don’t they know that every good American is supposed to get viscerally angry when one group of Soviets gets into a fight with another group of Soviets?!
And the Lusitania. And FDR promising to keep us out of war. And the economic sanctions on the Japanese. And the Gulf of Tonkin. And "weapons of mass destruction." But make sure to forget the Minsk agreements.
Magical ideological thinking! Kind of like Covid with social distancing, mask mandates, an unproven emergency vaccine, and vaccine passports; all of which became a divide and conquer strategy. At the heart of all this is a duplicitous and untrustworthy news media.
Listening to The Duran today they were talking about how the West is becoming exactly like what it claims to oppose, and the example they gave was censorship, which is now all pervasive in the West. It's also a sign of weakness.
My copy button is stuck, but the NY Post has the latest outrage in censorship perpetrated by Zuckerberg’s henchmen, flagging commentary and opinions on the 2020 election and sharing (!) them with the FBI…which has truly become the endorsement/intimidation arm of Zhou, and in complete violation of First Amendment…cry, the beloved country.
The weakness is the result of our lack of trust or respect for our government. Having ruined the economy and weaponized the FBI, we are told we are the enemy, white supremacists and domestic terrorists. With the example of Vietnam and Afghanistan, we can depend on the government to screw up any military action we undertake, throwing away our hard won victories. Why even bother our heads sorting out what is right and what is wrong. The assumption is our government will do the wrong thing, or will do the right thing wrongly.
We used to believe our government had righteous motives: to give people the freedom to make their lives better and to prosecute "just wars" against oppressors of freedom. That belief is gone (certainly for the time being and perhaps forever).
Excellent use of scare quotes with “volunteers.” The USA doesn’t have the equivalent of the UK’s foreign enlistment act, which makes it a crime for a subject of the crown to go fight against a nation with which the UK is not at war without permission of the Foreign Office. But I’m sure if the State Department found Americans fighting in Russian Volunteer Units, it could goad the DOJ into finding some federal statute to charge them with.
If American “volunteers” are fighting with Ukrainians, they are doing so with the active encouragement if not on orders from DOD. As an example, a former commander of the Marine Raiders—a Colonel in charge of their component of Special Forces—is in Ukraine right now training their forces. We traded nasty barbs calling each other liars and propagandists on an invite only FB page we were both on before I was kicked off. (Not important, but back in May or June, he was trying to claim the Russians were starting to use chemical weapons).
A guy who retired at that rank from that warfare community with that level of command would know so many USG secrets, and he’s still drawing half pay for life on the retired list, he almost certainly would have had to get permission to travel to a war zone, let alone participate in the war.
A friend forwarded me the following very recent assessment (through an American investment adviser) of the situation in Ukraine. It is 180 degrees the opposite of, for example, Alexander Mercouris' take. Who ya gonna believe?
"I was invited to listen to a private webinar by some very top people involved in military matters re: Ukraine. Without going into details from the call which we were asked not to repeat, their assessment is, Ukraine will win and drive out the Russians. Front line Russian units have been destroyed and battalions worth of tanks, artillery and other weapons were abandoned in the retreat. Slow progress is also being made in the south despite reports saying otherwise. The Russians have severe logistics, tactical and leadership problems. The Ukrainians have shown extraordinary skills and training, and their weapons now are first rate, whereas the Russians are out of top line weapons, and have few remaining first line fighting units. Bottom line, the Russians are losing badly, and have no hope of assembling new forces to put into the battle in any effective way quickly, nor the artillery ammunition to support a major new surge. Their tactics are not effective. Their artillery weapons were fired so much, they are likely no longer usable in many cases. They are going to get driven out. Even if Putin tried to use a battlefield nuke, it will not change the outcome, as those are not mass destruction weapons, and such use will cause Putin to be totally ostracized by everyone. The assumption is, he uses it as a threat, but will not pull the trigger."
The assessment above is largely true - in this moment. It boils down to Russia fighting as "special military operation", vs. Ukraine fighting a "total war". In that case, the latter wins. Eventually. However, this is not over yet. The key problem for Ukraine is that their fighting ability depends on continued support from US and - to much lesser degree - other NATO countries. And not just in terms of military assistance, but also paying teachers, civil servants, keeping infrastructure working. The country is not just bankrupt but needs monthly injection from abroad of few billion euros to keep it going. In addition, its energy infrastructure is slowly being destroyed (at least 2 coal-powered power plants in the last week), and let's not forget Russian gas is still flowing through Ukraine, but can and will be turned off. All as winter is setting in. If massive blackouts happen either EU will have to supply electricity (good luck selling that to EU voters, which are already on the streets, except MSM never reports about that), or face another wave of refugees from Ukraine.
The more I read and reflect, the more I conclude that
1 Ukraine has little incentive to end the war, notwithstanding horrific human loss and domestic insolvency, so long as it is receiving billions of dollars of aid from the US.
2 The recent 'successful' Ukraine offensive around Izium in fact gained little of consequence for Ukraine. It didn't change either sides' odds of success.
3 Russia will not give any concessions in any peace deal; it is done making concessions to the West. Hence Russia has no incentive to end the war.
4 The war will go on indefinitely. It went on in the Middle East for over two decades and simmers today.
5 Neither side will use nuclear weapons, the risk is too great, the reward too small.
6 This is a 'proxy war' for the US. The goal of the US is to weaken Russia and reassert control over NATO/EU.
7 Ukraine and the Ukrainian people are simply game pieces.
8 The ultimate goal and imperative of the US is to assure US global hegemony.
9 The fierce opposition to Trump, to destroy him at all costs, including extra-legal action, is not a function of revulsion to the man. If revulsion were the critical factor there would be no Biden.
10 The opposition is convinced that Trump, a nationalist, would concede US global hegemony in favor of MAGA -- domestic reconstruction -- and outright rejection of globalism.
11 Rejection of globalism is utterly unacceptable to the opposition.
12 Everything else is noise.
If this were true, Ukrainian TV would be showing no-man’s lands full of destroyed armored vehicles and decomposing corpses on a daily basis, and CNN and the Big 3 would be rebroadcasting them every hour on the hour. As it is, Russia occupies nearly the entirety of the Donbass—it’s announced causus belli—and the entire Ukrainian coastline east of Odessa. And it’s telegram channels are daily showing parades of ambulances from every city west of the front taking Ukrainians back to overstretched ER’s. None of this means the Russians are honest or trustworthy—but the available evidence coming from the theater does not support a Ukrainians are kicking butt hypothesis.
The Russian Army has been on the edge of collapse several times per Western Analysis since the start of the invasion.
Based on the track record, Alexander Mercouris take is more trustworthy.
It's exactly the same in the UK. People are just parroting what they read or hear on the BBC. Zero critical thinking. Most are completely ignorant of the 8 years if civil war in UKR. But is it surprising when you consider that the anti Russia propaganda never really stopped, except for maybe 5 minutes in 1989-90. It's going to take a whole lot of deprogramming to reverse such ingrained brainwashing.
Maybe I have gone over the precipice, or maybe not, I recommend that folks view the video embedded here with the captions on: https://russian-faith.com/news-trends/pray-our-military-defeat-those-who-now-rule-world-head-russian-church-n7113
And for further inspiration, a six minute video of the Main cathedral of the Russian armed forces: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onFc9d5glSo
Most People surveyed probably don’t even know where Ukraine is.
And, of those who do, at least half probably think it's the outlined area on the Risk game map which includes much of western Russia.
That would be the 31%--those are the ones who were willing to admit they'd never heard of Ukraine.
Most people surveyed probably don’t even know their head from their, ahem… behind.
William Arkin wrote in Newsweek once about this. I saved a quote but cant find a link to his work.
:...the American way of war has become to make war as invisible as possible, not just because counterterrorism demands some special degree of secrecy, but also because operating in secret—at least secret from the American public—lets the government and the military continue without interference. Neither Congress nor the public has particularly clamored for transparency or an audit, and the national security establishment assumes that the American public doesn't want to know, which is to say that it doesn't want to be bothered by war because it largely doesn't have a stake in what happens and nor is it prepared to sacrifice anyway."
That's it. It's part of a plan.
The result of an educational system that hasn't taught anything for the past two generations
In my experience, the "other side" of the story as represented by Tom Luongo is not getting wide dissemination. If it were to be more widely publicized, I would be willing to bet that most people wouldn't bother to understand it due to the complexity of the topic and as it is occurring 'over there'. You would think the pending collapse of Europe would register more than it has however, especially since it will have huge implications for us...
Ukraine on fire would be a good wake up call which is why it was banned.
Don’t they know that every good American is supposed to get viscerally angry when one group of Soviets gets into a fight with another group of Soviets?!
Remember the Maine!
And the Lusitania. And FDR promising to keep us out of war. And the economic sanctions on the Japanese. And the Gulf of Tonkin. And "weapons of mass destruction." But make sure to forget the Minsk agreements.
Historically reality has a way of intruding upon magical fantasy thinking. But by then it will be too late for most.
Magical ideological thinking! Kind of like Covid with social distancing, mask mandates, an unproven emergency vaccine, and vaccine passports; all of which became a divide and conquer strategy. At the heart of all this is a duplicitous and untrustworthy news media.
The power of Censorship
Listening to The Duran today they were talking about how the West is becoming exactly like what it claims to oppose, and the example they gave was censorship, which is now all pervasive in the West. It's also a sign of weakness.
My copy button is stuck, but the NY Post has the latest outrage in censorship perpetrated by Zuckerberg’s henchmen, flagging commentary and opinions on the 2020 election and sharing (!) them with the FBI…which has truly become the endorsement/intimidation arm of Zhou, and in complete violation of First Amendment…cry, the beloved country.
Yes, we are the baddies. Huge black pill. Who knew the Matrix was real.
The weakness is the result of our lack of trust or respect for our government. Having ruined the economy and weaponized the FBI, we are told we are the enemy, white supremacists and domestic terrorists. With the example of Vietnam and Afghanistan, we can depend on the government to screw up any military action we undertake, throwing away our hard won victories. Why even bother our heads sorting out what is right and what is wrong. The assumption is our government will do the wrong thing, or will do the right thing wrongly.
We used to believe our government had righteous motives: to give people the freedom to make their lives better and to prosecute "just wars" against oppressors of freedom. That belief is gone (certainly for the time being and perhaps forever).
Excellent use of scare quotes with “volunteers.” The USA doesn’t have the equivalent of the UK’s foreign enlistment act, which makes it a crime for a subject of the crown to go fight against a nation with which the UK is not at war without permission of the Foreign Office. But I’m sure if the State Department found Americans fighting in Russian Volunteer Units, it could goad the DOJ into finding some federal statute to charge them with.
If American “volunteers” are fighting with Ukrainians, they are doing so with the active encouragement if not on orders from DOD. As an example, a former commander of the Marine Raiders—a Colonel in charge of their component of Special Forces—is in Ukraine right now training their forces. We traded nasty barbs calling each other liars and propagandists on an invite only FB page we were both on before I was kicked off. (Not important, but back in May or June, he was trying to claim the Russians were starting to use chemical weapons).
A guy who retired at that rank from that warfare community with that level of command would know so many USG secrets, and he’s still drawing half pay for life on the retired list, he almost certainly would have had to get permission to travel to a war zone, let alone participate in the war.
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/longer-range-missiles-ukraine-would-make-us-party-conflict-kremlin