We have not been helping the Ukrainians by telling them to fight nor should we be. US, UK, and EU should be negotiating a cease-fire followed by a new agreement that gives up part of Ukraine while Ukraine is still in existence. Further, Z should stop crying wolf at every turn at the EU, UK, and US with false statements and escalating rhetoric. His day job is as an actor. He's acting and will create havoc when in fact he should be negotiating to save his country before it goes away forever.
In this fascinating article, on rereading it again and again, I have found some items I might quibble with. Perhaps Putin is clever enough to not want Russia to be perceived as a superpower, and to concede 'defeat.' That would take some pressure off Russia, and relieve him of responsibility for the Ukrainian people not under his dominance. We must consider that for him this is a new struggle against Fascism on Russia's border, which threatens the country's very existence. Ukraine may not be a neo-Nazi state, but portions have a Nazi past, and a questionable present. NATO is certainly perceived as a threat. Putin's best interest might be a cease-fire which could be seen as indicating the limit of his power, but leaving him in possession of all the buffer territory he wants and cutting off the Ukraine from the sea.
As a side note, this might have a parallel with President Trump, who many think has an ego pushing him to court praise and adulation. I see him as motivated to win, to accomplish the task, and being underestimated served him well.
Thank you. More scary than I thought. And our libs want to get involved. Of course. They are always in favor of Human Rights, embracing Rousseau's 'noble savage', and the more savage the 'noble savage' is, the better. As President Trump said, this could have and should have been prevented, but our getting involved now on either side poses a moral issue. Plus we will get our nose bloodied as we deal with unprincipled opponents.
It's pretty clear the US strategy is to bleed Russia as much as possible in Ukraine. Short of a direct war, it's probably the only military strategy.
I'm of the view that the US could have avoided all this. Russia should not have been made the enemy it was, particularly with the Russia conspiracy garbage. We could have made security guarantees and allowed a certain Russian sphere of interest in its neighbors. Yeah, it would be a sh!tty thing to do to those neighboring countries, but they weren't in NATO there. We could have solidified NATO up to the old Warsaw Pact countries and called it good.
All that said, once Putin made this move into Ukraine, facts on the ground have changed for me. I still oppose a direct military conflict with Russia, but I support any economic and military containment we can achieve, and support bleeding Russia in a long, drawn out, bloody insurgency in Ukraine. Keep Russia busy there rather than him fulfilling his explicit demands by force to remove NATO from any country that joined after the collapse of the USSR. We can't let Putin demolish Ukraine and turn it into a vassal of Russia. Nothing will stop China from doing the same to Taiwan if we let that happen--that might be true nomatter what we do, but letting Russia do anything it wants in Ukraine would be tantamount to inviting the Chinese to do the same to Taiwan.
What? Putin does/did not want to demolish Ukraine. The Russians have, at least until now, avoided destroying civilian infrastructure and killing civilians. Contrary to the way the U.S. has conducted its recent military adventures (bombing the hell out of said infrastructure before sending in the ground troops) the Russians sent in troops knowing full well they would suffer casualties — around 500, by latest counts. For good reason, Americans would not have tolerated such casualties during the first week of engagement in Yugoslavia, Iraq, Libya, Syria, etc.
Having said that, Russia is likely to take off the kid gloves if we continue to encourage the Ukrainians (and arm them!) to fight a fight they cannot win. In other words, our policies will guarantee the demolition of Ukraine. Or, as Techno Fog puts it, proxy wars never go well for the proxy. (https://technofog.substack.com/p/the-americans-itching-for-war?s=r)
“We could have solidified NATO up to the old Warsaw Pact countries and called it good.”
Actually we should have folded up NATO once the Warsaw Pact dissolved. Few understand that the latter was formed as a defensive alliance after NATO was established. Alright, both alliances were defensive. So once the one disappeared, the other should have as well.
Absolutely correct re. NATO, should have been terminated at the close of the cold war. George Washington warned of the dangers of permanent alliances and foreign entanglements, we continue to ignore him at our peril.
I’d add that we also ignored the warnings of Dwight Eisenhower regarding the dangers of our military-industrial complex. The man clearly knew what loomed on the horizon.
Pre Obama I'd have echoed your sentiments. But now? No way. The calculation is quite simple for ordinary Americans, those of us not members of the criminal cartels masquerading as the US government: we don't have a dog in this fight, we do not cheer on the DC criminals nor the ones in Moscow or Beijing or Brussels. NATO is not a good guy, nor the EU nor the US for that matter. We are witnessing one of many 'turf wars' by the gangsters, fighting for position, profits, power. You and I get absolutely no say in this and are mere fodder for these criminals. We can feel pity for the innocents in Ukraine as we will for Taiwan when they are subjugated by the CCP. But. We play a fool's game when we imagine that our government is doing anything at all that will benefit us or not enhance their power to keep us in serfdom. I am grimly hoping that the whole charade collapses. In ruin we Americans may just possibly reconstitute a republic and begin the long road back to freedom.
"We can't let Putin turn Ukraine into a vassal of Russia"
Why not? That's what it was for hundreds of years until the end of the Cold War. In the 2014 election that's pretty much what "Ukrainians" voted for--closer ties to Russia rather than the EU.
"I support any economic and military containment we can achieve"
An excellent summary of the current state of things and where this is headed. Thanks, Mark!
People who say that Putin would not have done this if Trump were President are right, but for the wrong reasons. Trump wanted strategic partnership with Russia to counter China. He also showed signs that he wasn’t sold on continuing to fund the money pit known as NATO. No doubt he would have made the sensible diplomatic moves: guarantee Ukraine would never join NATO and push Ukraine to follow through on obligations to make peace with its eastern, ethnic Russian population.
What we got instead was the exact opposite, as if Washington wanted this war. What a debacle, for which we will all pay for years to come. God help us!
"Trump wanted strategic partnership with Russia to counter China. He also showed signs that he wasn’t sold on continuing to fund the money pit known as NATO. No doubt he would have made the sensible diplomatic moves: guarantee Ukraine would never join NATO..."
Which is one of many reasons, Brother, why Trump had to go. Ukraine is far too valuable to the DC Cartel as a money laundering and bioweapons host to let go. Which is also why, btw, Russia has to go. Putin just isn't getting w the Globalist program, so he has to go as well. And whaddya know? We now hear the Cartel chimps yammering for 'regime change' !
"Ukraine is far too valuable to the DC Cartel as a money laundering and bioweapons host to let go. Which is also why, btw, Russia has to go. Putin just isn't getting w the Globalist program, so he has to go as well."
Spot on. And so the point isn't lost, it's the same bunch of Chimps in $500 suits who locked down the planet for 2 years, are basically the same bunch who've manufactured this intentional crisis and who've put us on the threshold of global thermonuclear war...
I would say the difference between Trump and what we got is that Trump was pragmatic, dealt with the realities of a situation and knew how to deal. What we have now is wishful thinking and wokeness. God help us!
US and Western sanctions are not allowing a path of retreat for Putin. It’s an all or nothing situation.
The only acceptable outcome for the Biden Administration seems to be Putin loses power. And they are betting all the sanctions will make this happen.
Reminds me of Assad in Syria under Obama, and he is still in power. And that fiasco allowed Russia to be a force in the Middle East again, after being frozen out since 73.
What is being ignored is the non West has their own interests. China, India, Brazil, opec, etc.
Putin loses power? Really? In previous years I would have pointed out that In Russia the vote may not matter, and it is understood that people cannot count on their government to be overly concerned about their well-being, but these distinctions between America and Russia are less clear nowadays.
Yes, and besides, even Russians who dislike Putin (there are some) agree that Ukraine’s recent dalliance with the West is an existential threat to their country’s security. If anything, sanctions will only stiffen Russians’ resolve to see this thing through to its logical conclusion.
Funny how amnesia ridden all the experts are now. I recall alot of similar whining and cringing about past US military actions being slow and not making progress etcc when it turned out that the US was carefully eliminating air defenses and communication nodes first. It would appear that Russia is doing the same. Ensure absolute air superiority-- the ability to operate air assets w impunity-- then and only then move forward ground units. The amount of propaganda out there is stunning. And Republicans lap it up.
"The Russian military is still in a strategic position to win the war." Putin has won. Cutting through all the rhetoric and theory, the facts on the ground demonstrate that Putin has achieved his objective, although he will go for more if he can get it on the cheap. Occupying the areas he now has he is well positioned to counter any NATO threat, and in addition has revealed the weakness of NATO. Trump got it right, although it is now near impossible in our free country to get to see a version of what he has said that hasn't been heavily edited, with additional commentary to make it clear how despicable the orange con man is. Fortunately we have Biden, who performed the remarkable feat of standing and being coherent all through the lengthy SOTU. I would not suggest war using our purged and 'woke' army. Should they not manage to lose it our politicians will, as they did in Afghanistan and Viet Nam.
We have not been helping the Ukrainians by telling them to fight nor should we be. US, UK, and EU should be negotiating a cease-fire followed by a new agreement that gives up part of Ukraine while Ukraine is still in existence. Further, Z should stop crying wolf at every turn at the EU, UK, and US with false statements and escalating rhetoric. His day job is as an actor. He's acting and will create havoc when in fact he should be negotiating to save his country before it goes away forever.
In this fascinating article, on rereading it again and again, I have found some items I might quibble with. Perhaps Putin is clever enough to not want Russia to be perceived as a superpower, and to concede 'defeat.' That would take some pressure off Russia, and relieve him of responsibility for the Ukrainian people not under his dominance. We must consider that for him this is a new struggle against Fascism on Russia's border, which threatens the country's very existence. Ukraine may not be a neo-Nazi state, but portions have a Nazi past, and a questionable present. NATO is certainly perceived as a threat. Putin's best interest might be a cease-fire which could be seen as indicating the limit of his power, but leaving him in possession of all the buffer territory he wants and cutting off the Ukraine from the sea.
As a side note, this might have a parallel with President Trump, who many think has an ego pushing him to court praise and adulation. I see him as motivated to win, to accomplish the task, and being underestimated served him well.
Regarding Ukraine’s “Nazi problem,” see:
https://www.bitchute.com/video/BCQdjYkcudCw/
https://youtu.be/KfaAyiP8Wuc
Thank you. More scary than I thought. And our libs want to get involved. Of course. They are always in favor of Human Rights, embracing Rousseau's 'noble savage', and the more savage the 'noble savage' is, the better. As President Trump said, this could have and should have been prevented, but our getting involved now on either side poses a moral issue. Plus we will get our nose bloodied as we deal with unprincipled opponents.
What Putin has won so far:
1. Encircled major amounts of the Ukranian Army
2. Showed that NATO is impotent
3. Revealed the Financial Weapons of the West
4. Increased anti Russian feelings in Europe to a hysterical level, that will help his support at home, and reduce Western Influence.
5. Showed non Western Countries will not go along with the sanctions including India, Pakistan, China, and Saudi Arabia.
6. Showed the West can't be trusted financially, and can and will seize assets if they disagree with your politics.
7. Brought up issue that Biden was elected fraudently.
8. Show cased the tools of the Tech Giants
9. Showed limitations of economic sanction weapon.
It's pretty clear the US strategy is to bleed Russia as much as possible in Ukraine. Short of a direct war, it's probably the only military strategy.
I'm of the view that the US could have avoided all this. Russia should not have been made the enemy it was, particularly with the Russia conspiracy garbage. We could have made security guarantees and allowed a certain Russian sphere of interest in its neighbors. Yeah, it would be a sh!tty thing to do to those neighboring countries, but they weren't in NATO there. We could have solidified NATO up to the old Warsaw Pact countries and called it good.
All that said, once Putin made this move into Ukraine, facts on the ground have changed for me. I still oppose a direct military conflict with Russia, but I support any economic and military containment we can achieve, and support bleeding Russia in a long, drawn out, bloody insurgency in Ukraine. Keep Russia busy there rather than him fulfilling his explicit demands by force to remove NATO from any country that joined after the collapse of the USSR. We can't let Putin demolish Ukraine and turn it into a vassal of Russia. Nothing will stop China from doing the same to Taiwan if we let that happen--that might be true nomatter what we do, but letting Russia do anything it wants in Ukraine would be tantamount to inviting the Chinese to do the same to Taiwan.
“We can't let Putin demolish Ukraine…”
What? Putin does/did not want to demolish Ukraine. The Russians have, at least until now, avoided destroying civilian infrastructure and killing civilians. Contrary to the way the U.S. has conducted its recent military adventures (bombing the hell out of said infrastructure before sending in the ground troops) the Russians sent in troops knowing full well they would suffer casualties — around 500, by latest counts. For good reason, Americans would not have tolerated such casualties during the first week of engagement in Yugoslavia, Iraq, Libya, Syria, etc.
Having said that, Russia is likely to take off the kid gloves if we continue to encourage the Ukrainians (and arm them!) to fight a fight they cannot win. In other words, our policies will guarantee the demolition of Ukraine. Or, as Techno Fog puts it, proxy wars never go well for the proxy. (https://technofog.substack.com/p/the-americans-itching-for-war?s=r)
“We could have solidified NATO up to the old Warsaw Pact countries and called it good.”
Actually we should have folded up NATO once the Warsaw Pact dissolved. Few understand that the latter was formed as a defensive alliance after NATO was established. Alright, both alliances were defensive. So once the one disappeared, the other should have as well.
Absolutely correct re. NATO, should have been terminated at the close of the cold war. George Washington warned of the dangers of permanent alliances and foreign entanglements, we continue to ignore him at our peril.
I’d add that we also ignored the warnings of Dwight Eisenhower regarding the dangers of our military-industrial complex. The man clearly knew what loomed on the horizon.
@unc
Pre Obama I'd have echoed your sentiments. But now? No way. The calculation is quite simple for ordinary Americans, those of us not members of the criminal cartels masquerading as the US government: we don't have a dog in this fight, we do not cheer on the DC criminals nor the ones in Moscow or Beijing or Brussels. NATO is not a good guy, nor the EU nor the US for that matter. We are witnessing one of many 'turf wars' by the gangsters, fighting for position, profits, power. You and I get absolutely no say in this and are mere fodder for these criminals. We can feel pity for the innocents in Ukraine as we will for Taiwan when they are subjugated by the CCP. But. We play a fool's game when we imagine that our government is doing anything at all that will benefit us or not enhance their power to keep us in serfdom. I am grimly hoping that the whole charade collapses. In ruin we Americans may just possibly reconstitute a republic and begin the long road back to freedom.
"bleeding Russia" = bleeding Ukraine
"We can't let Putin turn Ukraine into a vassal of Russia"
Why not? That's what it was for hundreds of years until the end of the Cold War. In the 2014 election that's pretty much what "Ukrainians" voted for--closer ties to Russia rather than the EU.
"I support any economic and military containment we can achieve"
i.e. world war without end. Seems unsound to me.
An excellent summary of the current state of things and where this is headed. Thanks, Mark!
People who say that Putin would not have done this if Trump were President are right, but for the wrong reasons. Trump wanted strategic partnership with Russia to counter China. He also showed signs that he wasn’t sold on continuing to fund the money pit known as NATO. No doubt he would have made the sensible diplomatic moves: guarantee Ukraine would never join NATO and push Ukraine to follow through on obligations to make peace with its eastern, ethnic Russian population.
What we got instead was the exact opposite, as if Washington wanted this war. What a debacle, for which we will all pay for years to come. God help us!
"Trump wanted strategic partnership with Russia to counter China. He also showed signs that he wasn’t sold on continuing to fund the money pit known as NATO. No doubt he would have made the sensible diplomatic moves: guarantee Ukraine would never join NATO..."
Which is one of many reasons, Brother, why Trump had to go. Ukraine is far too valuable to the DC Cartel as a money laundering and bioweapons host to let go. Which is also why, btw, Russia has to go. Putin just isn't getting w the Globalist program, so he has to go as well. And whaddya know? We now hear the Cartel chimps yammering for 'regime change' !
"Ukraine is far too valuable to the DC Cartel as a money laundering and bioweapons host to let go. Which is also why, btw, Russia has to go. Putin just isn't getting w the Globalist program, so he has to go as well."
Spot on. And so the point isn't lost, it's the same bunch of Chimps in $500 suits who locked down the planet for 2 years, are basically the same bunch who've manufactured this intentional crisis and who've put us on the threshold of global thermonuclear war...
I would say the difference between Trump and what we got is that Trump was pragmatic, dealt with the realities of a situation and knew how to deal. What we have now is wishful thinking and wokeness. God help us!
US and Western sanctions are not allowing a path of retreat for Putin. It’s an all or nothing situation.
The only acceptable outcome for the Biden Administration seems to be Putin loses power. And they are betting all the sanctions will make this happen.
Reminds me of Assad in Syria under Obama, and he is still in power. And that fiasco allowed Russia to be a force in the Middle East again, after being frozen out since 73.
What is being ignored is the non West has their own interests. China, India, Brazil, opec, etc.
Putin loses power? Really? In previous years I would have pointed out that In Russia the vote may not matter, and it is understood that people cannot count on their government to be overly concerned about their well-being, but these distinctions between America and Russia are less clear nowadays.
Yes, and besides, even Russians who dislike Putin (there are some) agree that Ukraine’s recent dalliance with the West is an existential threat to their country’s security. If anything, sanctions will only stiffen Russians’ resolve to see this thing through to its logical conclusion.
Funny how amnesia ridden all the experts are now. I recall alot of similar whining and cringing about past US military actions being slow and not making progress etcc when it turned out that the US was carefully eliminating air defenses and communication nodes first. It would appear that Russia is doing the same. Ensure absolute air superiority-- the ability to operate air assets w impunity-- then and only then move forward ground units. The amount of propaganda out there is stunning. And Republicans lap it up.
"The Russian military is still in a strategic position to win the war." Putin has won. Cutting through all the rhetoric and theory, the facts on the ground demonstrate that Putin has achieved his objective, although he will go for more if he can get it on the cheap. Occupying the areas he now has he is well positioned to counter any NATO threat, and in addition has revealed the weakness of NATO. Trump got it right, although it is now near impossible in our free country to get to see a version of what he has said that hasn't been heavily edited, with additional commentary to make it clear how despicable the orange con man is. Fortunately we have Biden, who performed the remarkable feat of standing and being coherent all through the lengthy SOTU. I would not suggest war using our purged and 'woke' army. Should they not manage to lose it our politicians will, as they did in Afghanistan and Viet Nam.