Military commentators like to make fun of naive journo types who peddle the propaganda talking points that the next Western systems supplied to Ukraine will include “wonder weapons” that will be “game changers.” These systems always fall far short of their billings. However, the Russians have deployed certain systems that really are game changing, and may be in the process of deploying additional such systems. As is usual for advanced militaries, the Russians are cautious not to overuse such systems, lest the US learn more about them than the Russians would prefer.
Maybe with Penicillin Russia has perfected the imperfect Shotspotter gunfire detection system many large cities were talked into buying in hope of doing something about their crime problems. Microphones were supposed to be able to triangulate the acoustic signature of gunfire. Response delays and imperfect tech gave it little success, but there are still many who swear by the technology
From what I've read an aircraft carrier could be compromised by 3 or 4 hypersonic missiles putting huge holes through the carrier with combustion outcome. USA is developing similar albeit not on the same "schedule" as Russia or China. Think some have been tested out at Vandenburg already.
The 'power' of the United States militarily was it's tremendous manufacturing capability, freedom-encouraging innovation, well-deserved patriotism applied to 'assisting partners' of the world and leadership that understood these.
China manufactures most stuff for us (simple example of a prospective-losses generator would be that our medicines are made and/or most ingredients thereof are produced there- let alone all the mechanical stuff that we were able to convert readily to a successful war-machine). The diminution of our Constitutional Liberties, Rights and Freedom coupled with extreme regulatory control imposition have discourage true innovation and relevant invention while selling out to 'profit' driven motives. There are millions of patriots, good USA loving men and women that have served this country, be it in our Armed services, Gov't institutions (i.e. Mr. Wauck, FBI) or remaining industries who represent the spirit that allowed us to be of use to benefit 'the world'. I suspect that today, a lot of said real patriots would find it difficult to support our military ventures, including what's happening in Ukraine. Afghanistan is an outcome of our (lack of ) leadership quality; our 'good intentions'; extreme cronyism and our significantly impacted abilities due to the Military/Industrial cabal/complex Eisenhower warned of.
If we could trust elections we might vote real statesmen and women into office but even if the electoral process was legitimate this country currently has a huge democrat party-line following, Marxist-accepting recent college graduate class that is in position to further the 'march to socialism' (as in communism). 5 years or so ago, 47% of Millennials polled thought Socialism was okay. Today, Capitalism is seen as bad or even is worse than socialism. This stupidity is not an accident. The dems can't win with truth and facts, but they're winning. (Debbie-Downer *formerly WRH of Idaho)
"Obviously the Zircon and Kinzhal hypersonic missiles fall into the game changing category. Russia has used them sparingly, but the US has no defense against these missiles."
Not really game changers, because US defense against missiles other than hypersonic aren't really all that they're cracked up be. Sometimes weapons are developed as a counter to a capability that the other side doesn't really have or never really deploys. the MIG-25 was to some extent a counter to the B-70 that America never got round to producing, although the Russians got good service out of the plane for other purposes. Hypersonic missiles would be useful for delivering nuclear weapons in the face of the ABM defenses we never really developed.
There are a number of interesting (And really nasty) Russian weapons that have no American equivalent that you never hear about. The Vasilek mortar, for instance. Or the Squall underwater missile. or the wake homing torpedo. (They had those things ten years before our intelligence knew about them!)
This isn't to say that Russian hypersonic missiles aren't useful, they are. I suspect the main practical use they would get out of them in a war with America would be as carrier killers armed with nuclear warheads.
EDIT: Before I get a lot of angry feedback on this, I'm simply saying that the defenses that hypersonic missiles were designed to defeat were always overrated or just hypothetical, thus they don't, as a practical matter really change all that much
Russia will use hypersonic missiles as a deterrent parking their frigates and submarines off of any coast they want. How does that make you feel? DETERRENT for anyone to escalate!
Russia has ballistic missile submarines that can launch a lot more nuclear missiles than any frigate without straying far from Russian home waters and we have no defense against these ballistic missiles. Finding those submarines, much less attacking them, would be no simple task. That is their deterrent. The frigates have other functions, and these do not include being parked on the surface off our coast where we could get at them easily.
I have come to the conclusion that many people see hypersonic missiles as symbols of Russian military power, just as they see aircraft carriers as symbols of American military power. Their opinions about the utility and likely performance of both tend to be functions of what they think about American and Russian power in general.
Hypersonic missiles at relatively short range would possibly arrive before our land based missiles could be launched--they are difficult to impossible to pick up on radar. That leaves really only our subs. I believe I've read that they have also made advances in anti-missile defenses.
That's one way they could be used. Remember your Hunt for Red October. You could quietly stooge up to the American coastline and take out Washington with little to no warning, the idea being that out missiles would stay in the silos long enough to be destroyed on the ground. In the discussions of hypersonic missile attacks I've seen , the assumption is usually that the attack would come in the form of a fractional orbit bombardment strike, no sneaking up to the coast involved. Other means of attack are also possible.
I think they're likely in a real war to be used as carrier killers, because the Russian navy is a fraction of the size it was in the 80s, and it can't throw three digits worth of missiles in a salvo anymore to try to swamp the defenses. But if a missile can't be intercepted because it's coming in too fast you don't need three digits worth. Which is why I think they're been put on surface ships.
The Russians took the threat of the US developing and deploying an ABM system very seriously. Perhaps more so than they ever really needed to, but that is neither here nor there.
The Israeli Iron Dome was developed for a situation that we don't face, and really has no analog anywhere else. the Palestinians have a lot of rockets, but most of them are never going to hit anything, So in order to limit the number of interceptors they would need to launch, Iron Dome plots where a rocket is going to come down and only launches an interceptor if it is going to fall on something that actually matters.
Israel is not as rich as the US, so their missile defense is designed with frugality. The US Anti Missile Systems have all the bells and whistles, and have a much higher cost per interception.
The US anti missile systems are designed against a force with a limited amount of missiles. They are not designed on a cost basis for industrial warfare.
Recently saw some video of Russia shelling a Ukie trench line with what appeared to be thermobaric-type artillery shells. Incredibly destructive. Looked non-survivable even if they were deep.
The next moves by "Biden" will likely give up the game how compromised he actually is, and who has him on a leash. All the influence peddling and grift around Ukraine documentated on Hunters laptop, and now that the knives are out over Garagegate files, watch what he does regarding putting boots on the ground or, just as bad, tries to pull together another 'coalition of the willing. '
No person in their right mind would continue this death spiral given the reality in the groundn in Ukraine. It's utter insanity.
Something has Biden's nuts in a vice of extortion..is it the US neocons? Globalist oligarchs, the "elites"? Zelensky?
I don't buy the idea that Zhou is being blackmailed into "boots on the ground." The military is totally opposed to that and, in any case, the logistics of sending any force that would make a difference are beyond anything we can do. When the MSM was talking up Apache helicopters being sent to Ukraine, I read up on what it takes to transport and support just a few. Crazy.
FWIW, I believe the US is playing one of its favorite games, called 'brinksmanship'. Nobody really knows how far you can push brinksmanship, and there's always a risk of pushing too far...but I think the US will stop somewhere before 'boots on the ground'. I hope the brakes work.
Respectfully disagree. May not be "boots on the ground" but escalation nonetheless. For example a "No Fly Zone" established over Ukraine would be an escalation, causing military to establish an air war presence.
I had a friend at Raytheon Solipsis which Is involved in creating integrated missile defense systems for countries such as Australia & the United Arab Emirates & the USA
He had 125 software programmers working for him
Everything you’re describing in this article Can be made to happen
But it does take a lot of time and a lot of creative minds to tie together all these high technologies which are based on high languages
You begin to think that if they’re smart enough to make these systems that makes war Of the old style obsolete that they would get smart enough Not to get involved with this type of war to begin with
Our military has to seriously rethink what modern wars are becoming
Back in 1988 The Art of War Was Re-Interpreted As the Art of Strategy by R L Wing
There’s better things to be doing then going to such wars as we’ve created in the Ukraine
Emulating Humpty Dumpty (Through the Looking Glass) this will only be a defeat when we choose to call it a defeat. Furthermore there will never be a recession or a Depression while a Democrat is President.
Ironic that lies and deceit seem so successful. I guess successful destruction leaves us forgetting those lies and deceptions as we simply try to survive. Sadly, it feels too much like 'Lather, Rinse, Repeat'. You may correctly protest, but must live with the consequences anyways. Strange times with some scary possibilities - a suspect President noting possible Armageddon (addled or otherwise) is not just scary but such announcements get a life of their own. Other nuclear capable countries understand differently than US citizens might since we all just kinda laugh at President Biden. It's very real to them and, if anything, the mental disfunction may be (properly) taken into account as making such an event MORE likely. I think only insanity considers such an encounter, yet, there we are. Best to you! (WRH)
Maybe with Penicillin Russia has perfected the imperfect Shotspotter gunfire detection system many large cities were talked into buying in hope of doing something about their crime problems. Microphones were supposed to be able to triangulate the acoustic signature of gunfire. Response delays and imperfect tech gave it little success, but there are still many who swear by the technology
That's terrific. Send the Ukie's more HIMARS with my tax dollars... dopes.
I haven’t heard anybody talk about it yet but I’ll broach the subject
You have a hypersonic missile moving at Mach 5 which equates to about 1 mile in one second 
An aircraft carrier would be 100 feet thick which gives you 1/50 of a second
How & when do you get a standard warhead to explode in the carrier to do maximum damage 
If it’s a nuclear warhead  what happens to the blast dynamics at mach 5 ?
How & when do you get it to detonate to do maximum damage ?
Does anybody have any top-secret technical papers on such discussions
Maybe we should check in Bidens garage 
There might be reasons why we don’t have these hypersonic missiles
From what I've read an aircraft carrier could be compromised by 3 or 4 hypersonic missiles putting huge holes through the carrier with combustion outcome. USA is developing similar albeit not on the same "schedule" as Russia or China. Think some have been tested out at Vandenburg already.
My best to Mark and you all!
The 'power' of the United States militarily was it's tremendous manufacturing capability, freedom-encouraging innovation, well-deserved patriotism applied to 'assisting partners' of the world and leadership that understood these.
China manufactures most stuff for us (simple example of a prospective-losses generator would be that our medicines are made and/or most ingredients thereof are produced there- let alone all the mechanical stuff that we were able to convert readily to a successful war-machine). The diminution of our Constitutional Liberties, Rights and Freedom coupled with extreme regulatory control imposition have discourage true innovation and relevant invention while selling out to 'profit' driven motives. There are millions of patriots, good USA loving men and women that have served this country, be it in our Armed services, Gov't institutions (i.e. Mr. Wauck, FBI) or remaining industries who represent the spirit that allowed us to be of use to benefit 'the world'. I suspect that today, a lot of said real patriots would find it difficult to support our military ventures, including what's happening in Ukraine. Afghanistan is an outcome of our (lack of ) leadership quality; our 'good intentions'; extreme cronyism and our significantly impacted abilities due to the Military/Industrial cabal/complex Eisenhower warned of.
If we could trust elections we might vote real statesmen and women into office but even if the electoral process was legitimate this country currently has a huge democrat party-line following, Marxist-accepting recent college graduate class that is in position to further the 'march to socialism' (as in communism). 5 years or so ago, 47% of Millennials polled thought Socialism was okay. Today, Capitalism is seen as bad or even is worse than socialism. This stupidity is not an accident. The dems can't win with truth and facts, but they're winning. (Debbie-Downer *formerly WRH of Idaho)
"Obviously the Zircon and Kinzhal hypersonic missiles fall into the game changing category. Russia has used them sparingly, but the US has no defense against these missiles."
Not really game changers, because US defense against missiles other than hypersonic aren't really all that they're cracked up be. Sometimes weapons are developed as a counter to a capability that the other side doesn't really have or never really deploys. the MIG-25 was to some extent a counter to the B-70 that America never got round to producing, although the Russians got good service out of the plane for other purposes. Hypersonic missiles would be useful for delivering nuclear weapons in the face of the ABM defenses we never really developed.
There are a number of interesting (And really nasty) Russian weapons that have no American equivalent that you never hear about. The Vasilek mortar, for instance. Or the Squall underwater missile. or the wake homing torpedo. (They had those things ten years before our intelligence knew about them!)
This isn't to say that Russian hypersonic missiles aren't useful, they are. I suspect the main practical use they would get out of them in a war with America would be as carrier killers armed with nuclear warheads.
EDIT: Before I get a lot of angry feedback on this, I'm simply saying that the defenses that hypersonic missiles were designed to defeat were always overrated or just hypothetical, thus they don't, as a practical matter really change all that much
Russia will use hypersonic missiles as a deterrent parking their frigates and submarines off of any coast they want. How does that make you feel? DETERRENT for anyone to escalate!
Russia has ballistic missile submarines that can launch a lot more nuclear missiles than any frigate without straying far from Russian home waters and we have no defense against these ballistic missiles. Finding those submarines, much less attacking them, would be no simple task. That is their deterrent. The frigates have other functions, and these do not include being parked on the surface off our coast where we could get at them easily.
I have come to the conclusion that many people see hypersonic missiles as symbols of Russian military power, just as they see aircraft carriers as symbols of American military power. Their opinions about the utility and likely performance of both tend to be functions of what they think about American and Russian power in general.
Hypersonic missiles at relatively short range would possibly arrive before our land based missiles could be launched--they are difficult to impossible to pick up on radar. That leaves really only our subs. I believe I've read that they have also made advances in anti-missile defenses.
That's one way they could be used. Remember your Hunt for Red October. You could quietly stooge up to the American coastline and take out Washington with little to no warning, the idea being that out missiles would stay in the silos long enough to be destroyed on the ground. In the discussions of hypersonic missile attacks I've seen , the assumption is usually that the attack would come in the form of a fractional orbit bombardment strike, no sneaking up to the coast involved. Other means of attack are also possible.
I think they're likely in a real war to be used as carrier killers, because the Russian navy is a fraction of the size it was in the 80s, and it can't throw three digits worth of missiles in a salvo anymore to try to swamp the defenses. But if a missile can't be intercepted because it's coming in too fast you don't need three digits worth. Which is why I think they're been put on surface ships.
Both have ballistic. Everyone knows that. Tit for tat stuff. Hypersonic = game changer. Hence bigger DETERRENT.
The Russians took the threat of the US developing and deploying an ABM system very seriously. Perhaps more so than they ever really needed to, but that is neither here nor there.
The Israeli Iron Dome was developed for a situation that we don't face, and really has no analog anywhere else. the Palestinians have a lot of rockets, but most of them are never going to hit anything, So in order to limit the number of interceptors they would need to launch, Iron Dome plots where a rocket is going to come down and only launches an interceptor if it is going to fall on something that actually matters.
Israel is not as rich as the US, so their missile defense is designed with frugality. The US Anti Missile Systems have all the bells and whistles, and have a much higher cost per interception.
The US anti missile systems are designed against a force with a limited amount of missiles. They are not designed on a cost basis for industrial warfare.
"They are not designed on a cost basis for industrial warfare."
To wage industrial warfare we'd have to still have an industrial base.
Recently saw some video of Russia shelling a Ukie trench line with what appeared to be thermobaric-type artillery shells. Incredibly destructive. Looked non-survivable even if they were deep.
We have--and have used--such weapons. They're especially destructive in enclosed spaces--trenches, bunkers, dug in positions.
The next moves by "Biden" will likely give up the game how compromised he actually is, and who has him on a leash. All the influence peddling and grift around Ukraine documentated on Hunters laptop, and now that the knives are out over Garagegate files, watch what he does regarding putting boots on the ground or, just as bad, tries to pull together another 'coalition of the willing. '
No person in their right mind would continue this death spiral given the reality in the groundn in Ukraine. It's utter insanity.
Something has Biden's nuts in a vice of extortion..is it the US neocons? Globalist oligarchs, the "elites"? Zelensky?
I don't buy the idea that Zhou is being blackmailed into "boots on the ground." The military is totally opposed to that and, in any case, the logistics of sending any force that would make a difference are beyond anything we can do. When the MSM was talking up Apache helicopters being sent to Ukraine, I read up on what it takes to transport and support just a few. Crazy.
FWIW, I believe the US is playing one of its favorite games, called 'brinksmanship'. Nobody really knows how far you can push brinksmanship, and there's always a risk of pushing too far...but I think the US will stop somewhere before 'boots on the ground'. I hope the brakes work.
Respectfully disagree. May not be "boots on the ground" but escalation nonetheless. For example a "No Fly Zone" established over Ukraine would be an escalation, causing military to establish an air war presence.
...the Chinese...
I had a friend at Raytheon Solipsis which Is involved in creating integrated missile defense systems for countries such as Australia & the United Arab Emirates & the USA
He had 125 software programmers working for him
Everything you’re describing in this article Can be made to happen
But it does take a lot of time and a lot of creative minds to tie together all these high technologies which are based on high languages
You begin to think that if they’re smart enough to make these systems that makes war Of the old style obsolete that they would get smart enough Not to get involved with this type of war to begin with
Our military has to seriously rethink what modern wars are becoming
Back in 1988 The Art of War Was Re-Interpreted As the Art of Strategy by R L Wing
There’s better things to be doing then going to such wars as we’ve created in the Ukraine
The Russian Penicillin sounds similar to the gunshot acoustic detection systems that have been around for years.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunfire_locator
Other Russian Tech to watch:
1. Cheap suicide drones
2. Electronic Warfare
And the Saker:
https://thesaker.is/tanks-for-nothing-nato-keeps-on-demilitarising-itself-in-ukraine/
Linked to an article in the industrial war angle and the US artillery shell production shortfall is huge:
https://www.csis.org/analysis/rebuilding-us-inventories-six-critical-systems
Wow!
Emulating Humpty Dumpty (Through the Looking Glass) this will only be a defeat when we choose to call it a defeat. Furthermore there will never be a recession or a Depression while a Democrat is President.
Hey Perle!
Ironic that lies and deceit seem so successful. I guess successful destruction leaves us forgetting those lies and deceptions as we simply try to survive. Sadly, it feels too much like 'Lather, Rinse, Repeat'. You may correctly protest, but must live with the consequences anyways. Strange times with some scary possibilities - a suspect President noting possible Armageddon (addled or otherwise) is not just scary but such announcements get a life of their own. Other nuclear capable countries understand differently than US citizens might since we all just kinda laugh at President Biden. It's very real to them and, if anything, the mental disfunction may be (properly) taken into account as making such an event MORE likely. I think only insanity considers such an encounter, yet, there we are. Best to you! (WRH)