Yesterday, toward the end of their conversation, Judge Napolitano asked Alastair Crooke (the former UK diplomat and MI6 officer) for an assessment of the Tucker - Putin interview.
Umm the history lesson at its core was all about the geographic insecurity that Ukraine presents to Russia. From where has Moscow been attacked over the last millennia? Or simply look back a few months and recollect the Prigozhin/Wagner Group coup and how far, fast and easily they got to the outskirts of Moscow.
I can't be the only one feeling bludgeoned by the precise details (and convenient omissions) of different accounts of Russian history at the moment.
But I remind myself of Benedict Anderson's argument that nationalism is based upon an "imagined community". There may certainly be inaccuracies, idiosyncracies, or omissions in the narrative that forms the basis of that imagining (c.f. "There ain't no Black in the Union Jack", Paul Gilroy). That doesn't make it any less powerful. Quarrels over the minutiae may be missing that point.
Wow, my Google search and Wikipedia got a heated going through with this article. I do love history, contrary to the “wests disdain” theory, probably why I love “Meaning in History”. Of course with Google and wiki I never know if I’m getting the truth so it’s good to have multiple sources to sift through. I’m about half way through Wallers “Big Intel” and much of the beginning of that book dovetails nicely with this article. Once again superb effort Mark, you’re a treasure.
I didn't think I would ever hear an interview where I felt I knew less about their hopes/dreams/fears/complaints after listening than I did before. It almost feels like he went out of his way to not say anything quotable. Brought up 2008 a lot and seemed to brush over the most egregious stuff, set up stories then failed to pay them off asking Tucker to follow up with the person who he was negotiating with, who he knows will never answer. When Putin asked "serious discussion or show" I know my answer now will be "show".
[And the Big Money people are all lining up to “rebuild” Ukraine. That’s a code word for “loot”.]
Don’t forget Penney Pritzker, the Obama backer, who was recently given some government position and put in charge of the “rebuilding” by the Zhou regime. She is of Ukrainian Jewish background herself.
Above my pay grade. Having watched the interview, all I know is that Putin came across as rational and human, the MSM was completely blindsided, and the Deep State is seriously pissed off at Tucker Carlson. The rest will sort itself out.
Yes! tx for the historical deep dive Mark, and the exchange of valid, thought-provoking points by commenters. I like Crooke - he makes you listen carefully, just as he in his career as a diplomat always urged parties to do…and yet, where are we now? Years of practicing diplomacy, of bringing warring sides to the table, of striving for reasonable and acceptable outcomes…you also hear that in Putin’s remarks about being “open” to talking w the Americans - and yet…
Glad you like (most of) my stuff. I've read nemets previously and don't buy it. Re graymirror, let me just note that his screed--he does speak of his "hyperbolic contempt" for Ukraine--on Ruthenian as a "rural" language misses an important fact that Putin himself is aware of and mentions--that Ruthenian (Putin refers to it as "Old Russian", but that's a longer story) was an official language of the Lithuanian kingdom, which included the land of the White Rus--the literal meaning of Belarus.
Re kraj:
край
· edge (border, end), brim, brink, side, line
· region, krai
· land, territory
родной край native country
I have to wonder, why would anyone name their country, literally, "on the edge"? As I pointed out, the term Ukraina arose in a *Polish* context and referred to a region, eastern Galicia, which *region* was the southeastern most region of the Polish kingdom, bordering on Lithuanian/Ruthenian lands. That Polish usage was adopted by the Red Ruthenians, later spreading eastward.
More examples of kraj meaning *region*. All of these Russian examples are totally compatible with Polish usage:
Украина - чудесный край, всегда гостеприимный и приветливый.
Ukraine is a wonderful *region* which is always welcoming and friendly.

Я при каждой возможности старалась посещать этот богатый древней культурой край с мужем и детьми.
I tried at every opportunity to visit this rich ancient culture of the *region* with her husband and children.
Вся деятельность администрации была направлена на превращение Царства Польского в Привисленский край.
The activity of the administration was directed to the transformation of Poland into Privislensky *territory.*
В XII веке край именовался «Ижорской землей Господина Великого Новгорода».
In 12th century the *territory* was called "The Izhora land of Master Great Novgorod".
Многие также ехали в неизвестный край в надежде обрести религиозную свободу.
Many also went to an unknown *region* in the hope of finding religious freedom.
In Old East Slavic: Ѹкраина/Ꙋкраина, romanized: Oukraina [uˈkrɑjinɑ]) appears in the Hypatian Codex of c. 1425 under the year 1187 in reference to a part of the territory of Kyivan Rus',[3] meaning specifically *region or land itself rather than borderland.*
*In most Slavic languages (including the Chakavian and Kajkavian dialects of Serbo-Croatian), the root krajina is found and means country:*[2] in Polish (kraj), Slovak (krajina), Czech, Ukrainian (країна, romanised krayina), Belarusian (краіна, romanised kraina) and Sorbian. Though, in Slovenian, this word means land and march. To these languages, the word krajina was derived from Proto-Slavic *krajь, just like in Serbo-Croatian.
*The name of Ukraine has a similar linguistic origin (it is a combination of two words У — U which means In and країна — kraina which literally means country or land in Ukrainian).* And here it goes "Ukraine", in Ukrainian Україна. Compare Deutschland is a combination of two words Deutsch and land.
The real point is that Putin is trying to use tendentious etymology to make a political point. The Ukrainians named their enormous country Ukraine with the idea that the name refers to the whole country in its sovereignty, and not as bordering on some other country, whether Poland or Russia or Rumania.
Putin pulls another sleight of tongue by claiming that the Ukrainians--or as he would say, the Russians along the border--wrote to Moscow for help against the "brutal" Poles. The reality, as I described it accurately, is that it was the Zaporozhian Cossacks that sought to use Russia against Poland. The Cossacks of the time--while they are now embraced by Ukrainians as national heroes--had nothing to learn from the Poles regarding brutality and were not necessarily representative of the rest of the region at all. Of course Putin knew that neither Tucker nor most Americans would think to challenge his narrative.
Putin is trying to use etymology to suggest that these people were really just Russians speaking Russian serving ass border guards or something of that sort. The truth is that these were "Lithuanian" lands. I use quotes because the duchy of Lithuania was in fact a heavily Ruthenian polity that used Ruthenian as an official and literary language. All linguists agree that modern Belorussian, Ukrainian, and Rusyn derive from Ruthenian and that Ruthenian and Russian are separate branches of the East Slavic languages. It's simply wrong for you and Putin to suggest otherwise. While Ukraine as a separate national state with well defined borders didn't really exist until after the Cold War that doesn't mean that there was no national identity within the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth
That's exactly what the Cossacks wanted to set up, which again argues for a Ruthenian national identity before those lands were conquered by Russia. Ruthenian as a term has simply been replaced by Ukrainian.
Sounds like a plan, Steve. I may take you up on that. :-)
Later today, I hope to do another post working from a very foolish tweet by Simplicius. The reason this stuff is important is because nationalism has used historical and linguistic research for its own narratival purposes. That's very true in Russia, where "history" is used by Russian nationalists to deny the existence of Ukrainians and Byelorussians as separate ethnicities. Does that remind you of Zionists who persistently use fake history to deny the existence of Palestinians? We don't talk about nationalism much in the US, but we do have ideologies of America, like American Exceptionalism, which also abuse history.
I've done my share of reading in East European history, but I assure you I don't spend more time than I consider necessary any longer. But it keeps coming up in this war on Russia.
Funny that! and sometimes history, the kind you strive to present here, doesn’t even feature. The Dems are so quick to slap the label “Hitler” or “dictator” on Trump (or anyone who begs to differ from their ideology) while at the same time pouring zillions into supporting a goodly number of Nazis in Ukraine! Go figure.
You may be interested to know, just btw, that, while the Brave browser was unstable on my old system--for no reasons I could figure out--it has been a bit of a life saver for me on the new system. Totally stable.
According to Yahoo news, General Syrsky is switching to “strategic defense” to try to weaken Russia…how’d that work out in Bakhmut? Except now he’s throwing the toughest fighting men (Azov…) to defend Adveevka.
Umm the history lesson at its core was all about the geographic insecurity that Ukraine presents to Russia. From where has Moscow been attacked over the last millennia? Or simply look back a few months and recollect the Prigozhin/Wagner Group coup and how far, fast and easily they got to the outskirts of Moscow.
Did you forget Germany in 1941? That wasn't a millennium ago.
"Prigozhin/Wagner Group coup" Seriously?
I can't be the only one feeling bludgeoned by the precise details (and convenient omissions) of different accounts of Russian history at the moment.
But I remind myself of Benedict Anderson's argument that nationalism is based upon an "imagined community". There may certainly be inaccuracies, idiosyncracies, or omissions in the narrative that forms the basis of that imagining (c.f. "There ain't no Black in the Union Jack", Paul Gilroy). That doesn't make it any less powerful. Quarrels over the minutiae may be missing that point.
great point, Karen.
More data on u.s. missile production shortfall:
https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/why-us-navy-running-out-tomahawk-cruise-missiles-209317
Wow, my Google search and Wikipedia got a heated going through with this article. I do love history, contrary to the “wests disdain” theory, probably why I love “Meaning in History”. Of course with Google and wiki I never know if I’m getting the truth so it’s good to have multiple sources to sift through. I’m about half way through Wallers “Big Intel” and much of the beginning of that book dovetails nicely with this article. Once again superb effort Mark, you’re a treasure.
I didn't think I would ever hear an interview where I felt I knew less about their hopes/dreams/fears/complaints after listening than I did before. It almost feels like he went out of his way to not say anything quotable. Brought up 2008 a lot and seemed to brush over the most egregious stuff, set up stories then failed to pay them off asking Tucker to follow up with the person who he was negotiating with, who he knows will never answer. When Putin asked "serious discussion or show" I know my answer now will be "show".
I like the Mongol map someone came up with that showed a period in time when they controlled a massive swath of land surrounding Russia.
https://www.oxfordreference.com/display/10.1093/oi/authority.20110810105217770#:~:text=Kiev%2C%20now%20in%20Ukraine%2C%20was,of%20the%20Varangarian%E2%80%93Russian%20principality.
[And the Big Money people are all lining up to “rebuild” Ukraine. That’s a code word for “loot”.]
Don’t forget Penney Pritzker, the Obama backer, who was recently given some government position and put in charge of the “rebuilding” by the Zhou regime. She is of Ukrainian Jewish background herself.
And Harvard woke board chairman.
I think former now, at least if Ackman has his way…
Weird.
Above my pay grade. Having watched the interview, all I know is that Putin came across as rational and human, the MSM was completely blindsided, and the Deep State is seriously pissed off at Tucker Carlson. The rest will sort itself out.
Soon to be VP Tucker.
Exceptional, again!
Yes! tx for the historical deep dive Mark, and the exchange of valid, thought-provoking points by commenters. I like Crooke - he makes you listen carefully, just as he in his career as a diplomat always urged parties to do…and yet, where are we now? Years of practicing diplomacy, of bringing warring sides to the table, of striving for reasonable and acceptable outcomes…you also hear that in Putin’s remarks about being “open” to talking w the Americans - and yet…
Glad you like (most of) my stuff. I've read nemets previously and don't buy it. Re graymirror, let me just note that his screed--he does speak of his "hyperbolic contempt" for Ukraine--on Ruthenian as a "rural" language misses an important fact that Putin himself is aware of and mentions--that Ruthenian (Putin refers to it as "Old Russian", but that's a longer story) was an official language of the Lithuanian kingdom, which included the land of the White Rus--the literal meaning of Belarus.
Re kraj:
край
· edge (border, end), brim, brink, side, line
· region, krai
· land, territory
родной край native country
I have to wonder, why would anyone name their country, literally, "on the edge"? As I pointed out, the term Ukraina arose in a *Polish* context and referred to a region, eastern Galicia, which *region* was the southeastern most region of the Polish kingdom, bordering on Lithuanian/Ruthenian lands. That Polish usage was adopted by the Red Ruthenians, later spreading eastward.
More examples of kraj meaning *region*. All of these Russian examples are totally compatible with Polish usage:
Украина - чудесный край, всегда гостеприимный и приветливый.
Ukraine is a wonderful *region* which is always welcoming and friendly.

Я при каждой возможности старалась посещать этот богатый древней культурой край с мужем и детьми.
I tried at every opportunity to visit this rich ancient culture of the *region* with her husband and children.
Вся деятельность администрации была направлена на превращение Царства Польского в Привисленский край.
The activity of the administration was directed to the transformation of Poland into Privislensky *territory.*
В XII веке край именовался «Ижорской землей Господина Великого Новгорода».
In 12th century the *territory* was called "The Izhora land of Master Great Novgorod".
Многие также ехали в неизвестный край в надежде обрести религиозную свободу.
Many also went to an unknown *region* in the hope of finding religious freedom.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krajina I quote only part:
In Old East Slavic: Ѹкраина/Ꙋкраина, romanized: Oukraina [uˈkrɑjinɑ]) appears in the Hypatian Codex of c. 1425 under the year 1187 in reference to a part of the territory of Kyivan Rus',[3] meaning specifically *region or land itself rather than borderland.*
*In most Slavic languages (including the Chakavian and Kajkavian dialects of Serbo-Croatian), the root krajina is found and means country:*[2] in Polish (kraj), Slovak (krajina), Czech, Ukrainian (країна, romanised krayina), Belarusian (краіна, romanised kraina) and Sorbian. Though, in Slovenian, this word means land and march. To these languages, the word krajina was derived from Proto-Slavic *krajь, just like in Serbo-Croatian.
*The name of Ukraine has a similar linguistic origin (it is a combination of two words У — U which means In and країна — kraina which literally means country or land in Ukrainian).* And here it goes "Ukraine", in Ukrainian Україна. Compare Deutschland is a combination of two words Deutsch and land.
The real point is that Putin is trying to use tendentious etymology to make a political point. The Ukrainians named their enormous country Ukraine with the idea that the name refers to the whole country in its sovereignty, and not as bordering on some other country, whether Poland or Russia or Rumania.
Putin pulls another sleight of tongue by claiming that the Ukrainians--or as he would say, the Russians along the border--wrote to Moscow for help against the "brutal" Poles. The reality, as I described it accurately, is that it was the Zaporozhian Cossacks that sought to use Russia against Poland. The Cossacks of the time--while they are now embraced by Ukrainians as national heroes--had nothing to learn from the Poles regarding brutality and were not necessarily representative of the rest of the region at all. Of course Putin knew that neither Tucker nor most Americans would think to challenge his narrative.
I did point out mistakes.
Putin is trying to use etymology to suggest that these people were really just Russians speaking Russian serving ass border guards or something of that sort. The truth is that these were "Lithuanian" lands. I use quotes because the duchy of Lithuania was in fact a heavily Ruthenian polity that used Ruthenian as an official and literary language. All linguists agree that modern Belorussian, Ukrainian, and Rusyn derive from Ruthenian and that Ruthenian and Russian are separate branches of the East Slavic languages. It's simply wrong for you and Putin to suggest otherwise. While Ukraine as a separate national state with well defined borders didn't really exist until after the Cold War that doesn't mean that there was no national identity within the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish–Lithuanian–Ruthenian_Commonwealth
That's exactly what the Cossacks wanted to set up, which again argues for a Ruthenian national identity before those lands were conquered by Russia. Ruthenian as a term has simply been replaced by Ukrainian.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_East_Slavic
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruthenian_language
https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/83527423.pdf
Sounds like a plan, Steve. I may take you up on that. :-)
Later today, I hope to do another post working from a very foolish tweet by Simplicius. The reason this stuff is important is because nationalism has used historical and linguistic research for its own narratival purposes. That's very true in Russia, where "history" is used by Russian nationalists to deny the existence of Ukrainians and Byelorussians as separate ethnicities. Does that remind you of Zionists who persistently use fake history to deny the existence of Palestinians? We don't talk about nationalism much in the US, but we do have ideologies of America, like American Exceptionalism, which also abuse history.
I've done my share of reading in East European history, but I assure you I don't spend more time than I consider necessary any longer. But it keeps coming up in this war on Russia.
Funny that! and sometimes history, the kind you strive to present here, doesn’t even feature. The Dems are so quick to slap the label “Hitler” or “dictator” on Trump (or anyone who begs to differ from their ideology) while at the same time pouring zillions into supporting a goodly number of Nazis in Ukraine! Go figure.
Democrats are always projecting Hitler on anyone, but themselves and they are truly, "Worse than Hitler."
I wonder what the geographic distribution is.
Amazing number.
You may be interested to know, just btw, that, while the Brave browser was unstable on my old system--for no reasons I could figure out--it has been a bit of a life saver for me on the new system. Totally stable.
I was wondering how Ukraine was putting people on the front lines and keeping them there.
According to Yahoo news, General Syrsky is switching to “strategic defense” to try to weaken Russia…how’d that work out in Bakhmut? Except now he’s throwing the toughest fighting men (Azov…) to defend Adveevka.