It's great that the Russia hoax stuff is coming out and I hope Brennan, Comey et al pay the price for their sedition and possible treason. However, the timing of this is very suspicious. Maybe it is a big 4D chess move to catch 'em all, but it's also a great distraction for Trump from his Epstein woes.
As a retired atty., the analysis of Section 371 seems sound to me. And as an earlier commenter noted, the statute of limitations for fraud crimes are generally tolled until the time of their discovery, at as of the time they should reasonably have been discovered. Of course, judges are political animals. No judicial ruling is ever a foregone certainty.
Thanks. Tulsi's latest statement is that the intent was to "thwart the will of the American people." Sounds like a conspiracy to defraud to me. Of course I understand that the intent was a coup, since it came after the election, but "stage a coup through law- or intel-fare" doesn't appear in Title 18, and that sounds like fraud, too.
If Trump and Bondi don’t have the courage to tackle the Epstein matter, why would they go after Obama and Russiagate? These criminals will not be brought to justice.
Is he worried about the Israeli connection being revealed?
Or the relationship he had with Epstein, two rich playboys in the same social circles in NYC and Florida?
Or is he worried about the damage Epstein’s information release will do to those Epstein interacted with?
Or is Trump drawing more media attention to Epstein to force information to be released?
Or is he afraid of anti Trump stuff salted in the Epstein files?
“treasonous conspiracy” is more about narrative building, than the actual charges doj will file. Naming Obama is huge.
Russiagate had foreign intel components, but I don’t believe that included Mossad. MI6 definitely, Australia, and Italy’s intel agencies were part of it.
Something I should repeat: Releasing GJ testimony is fine, but it's unlikely to advance investigation into the intel angle. Instead, it would probably deflect from that.
Danny Davis makes the point that this whole Epstein thing seems to have Trump really spooked.
“The Hammer is the Key to the Coup” – Mary Fanning and Alan Jones – published 2020
“On March 19, 2017, General McInerney and Admiral Lyons dropped The American Report’s exposé on The HAMMER, the illegal surveillance operation overseen by Obama, Brennan, and Clapper with which they spied on Americans and targeted their political adversaries.”
“The Hammer is the Key to the Coup” – Mary Fanning and Alan Jones
– published 2020
Description
“THE HAMMER is the Key to the Coup” is a summary of a multi-year investigation by national security journalists Mary Fanning and Alan Jones of The American Report into the supercomputer surveillance system known as THE HAMMER.
John Brennan, James Clapper and Barack Obama illegally commandeered the powerful foreign surveillance tool, THE HAMMER, in order to domestically spy on their political enemies.
CIA whistleblower and contractor Dennis Montgomery built THE HAMMER in 2003 to keep America safe after 9/11. Military sources unequivocally state that THE HAMMER worked. THE HAMMER also protected U.S. troops on the battlefield.
Montgomery became a whistleblower and handed over 47 computer hard drives of illegally-harvested surveillance data to the Department of Justice and the FBI under two limited immunity agreements in December of 2015.
FBI Director James Comey and FBI General Counsel James Baker, with DOJ Assistant U.S. Attorney Deborah Curtis, buried that proof of illegal surveillance rather than act upon it.
Whistleblower Montgomery states Barack Obama, John Brennan, and James Clapper used THE HAMMER to spy on Donald Trump and General Michael Flynn. Montgomery also asserts that Brennan and Clapper had Supreme Court Justices (including Chief Justice John Roberts) , FISA Court judges, 156 Article III judges, over one hundred Members of Congress, business leaders, journalists, law firms, U.S. military officers, and defense contractors under illegal surveillance.
The Deep State launched the Trump Russian collusion hoax investigation in order to cover up the Obama administration’s use of THE HAMMER illegal surveillance system that was transforming America into a Stasi-style police state.
When an admiral and a general presented The American Report’s investigation into THE HAMMER over America’s airwaves, a political tectonic shift began within hours. The very next day, FBI Director James Comey launched the Russian Collusion Investigation, placing none other than Deputy Assistant Director of the FBI Counterintelligence Division Peter Strzok in charge of that investigation.
“THE HAMMER is the Key to the Coup” pulls all of the clues into place, exposing what President Trump calls “The Political Crime of the Century”.
I think you're missing the enormity of the crime. If this conduct goes unpunished because of a legal technicality or inadequacy, then you are proactively undermining the very essence of what holds up together as a nation. And that is no trivial thing. The victim of letting this slide is the death of patriotism. No sane young man would, or should, volunteer to fight and risk death for the illusion of law and order. No sane citizen should place any faith or confidence in our system of governance. There is no longer any reason to trust anyone in public service, in any capacity, or for any reason. Societal trust dies in cowardice of our leaders and their duplicity. Those chickens will come home to roost sooner rather than later.
Krainer walks a tight-rope stretched over LaLa Land. But some arguments he offered for NOT releasing the "files" made sense:
- Keeping the possible names on the list quiet keeps those folks on edge, and unwilling to tangle with Trump. (Think, if Hitler had merely disclosed he had a list of people to eliminate rather than carry out Night of Long Knives.)
- If names are revealed, what will happen? There will be trials, prolonged debacles in which the guilty will most likely skate. Cf. Prince Andrew: he is still alive & free; Ms. Giuffre is dead.
- "The List" is ammunition. Its threat value is greater than its destruction value. Once it is fired, it is no longer a threat.
I disagree - I think the trust value regained by society in ‘the system’, and the deterrence value induced by adequate legal reckoning greatly overcompensates for loss of ‘threat value’.
In the Krainer conversation that's basis for my comment, the emphasis was on TRUMP, his survival and his consolidation of power; but not on the "good of society."
I'll have to read Mark's commentary on the Ryan Dawson interview more carefully. My overall impression of Dawson's research is that the pedophile element of l'Affair Epstein is actually lesser in the harm to society, though far more attention-grabbing. The larger purpose of the Epstein network was, it seems, an extensive spy- and nexus for covert/subversive operations not necessarily in the best interests of the American people and often against their interests, but using USA resources for the benefit of Israel.
If "society" comes to understand fully the extent to which USA has been used, and abused, for Israel's benefit, I'm not sure "trust value" will be regained any time soon.
I like the fraud angle, I’m not a lawyer, but generally fraud crimes toll when they are discovered and not when committed. These bastards can’t be allowed to skate on some statute of limitation escape.
"you're missing the enormity of the crime. If this conduct goes unpunished because of a legal technicality or inadequacy, then you are proactively undermining the very essence of what holds up together as a nation."
I'm not missing anything, and I don't regard the US Constitution--which defines treason, as I quote it--is a "legal technicality." Before you start tossing around vague talk about "the enormity of the crime" you damned well need to find a crime in Title 18 of the United States Code that fits the facts. If you don't the case will be tossed out of court.
You're asking a good question. Most people have overly simplistic notions of the events. The targets - Comey, Brennan, etc - are the opposite of fools. They know how to play the game. The approach that I would recommend would be to investigate it like a securities case. Here's what I mean by that: in a securities case, the investigators go through the disclosure documents with a fine tooth comb. Not just for what was said, but more usually for "material omissions". If you're going to get Comey or Brennan, it would have to be on "material omissions", rather than expecting a Dr Evil memo. I expect that there are serious material omissions in 2017 documents subsequent to the Danchenko revelations. The March 8, 2017 Talking Points memorandum definitely has serious material omissions and misrepresentations. As someone with detailed knowledge of the documents, I would urge almost total focus on 2017 documents as, by 2017, a great deal of exculpatory information had emerged. The fascination of most observers with summer 2016, things like Clinton Plan, is, IMO, a serious distraction away from the 2017 events which again IMO are far more likely to contain an example of misconduct. AG Barr is one of the few officials who clearly understood this. His statements upon receipt of Horowitz Report were precise and insightful.
Let me try saying it differently. If the crime is serious enough that it genuinely threatens the viability of our national cohesion and social trust compact, you must take action, by whatever means necessary, to preserve the country. Should the legal system fail us, our duty is step-up nonetheless. That is what our forefathers did in the American Revolution, and our duty is no less. I would argue that those are the stakes given the circumstances evident in the Russia Hoax Conspiracy.
I don't disagree with that, but I'd argue prosecuting people for conspiring to defraud We the People of our constitutional order would not be a failure of the legal system. I'd call it a triumph for the rule of law.
Honest question. Is refusal to prosecute (when justified) a violation of the rule of law? Or said differently, is what Bondi did a violation of ethics or a subversion of the rule of law?
You're probably right that publicly known facts are insufficient at present, but the thread of an investigation focusing on the Russia hoax, impeachments and subsequent election fraud to install the cabbage puppet may develop what's needed. We have to start somewhere and you're suggestion may be the way to go. Let's get on with it.
I really get upset with people who don't bother reading the relevant criminal statutes and take a bit of time trying to apply them to the known facts. "Conspiracy to defraud" may not sound as sexy as Treason or Sedition, but the prosecutors get to describe exactly what the fraud involved and who the victims were--We the People.
Older, sadder, mellower, and hopefully, wiser since 2019, color me skeptical that much happens.
You mention Missouri in your post, which I infer, as a Show-Me State resident, to mean show me.
Whatever crime it is, it's pretty fundamental to our whole government and just shows how far We the People have wandered from our love of God, the truth and the rule of law.
What does Epstein coming out now “reveal?” The way the West Was Won ;) in the Television Paradigm. We don’t live there anymore: fantasy world about humans.
Bigger picture? How about lack of elites/leadership in the West? How far back? At least decades, say 1970.
A challenge to us today: Digital is going to force pull the threads. There is no ability to stop it at this point. Is the US/West ready for this Apocalypse Now! time? Not a chance. Gabi doing her own “reveal” does not deflect, as they are part of the same group of narratives we all grew up on.
Digital tech is ubiquitous and forms everyone in the world now (think about a 2nd grader today in the US and how they function in this environment).
Digital is “unconcealing” our prior Television paradigm narratives. Destroying. Rubble.
Lack of West elites to deal with it or to think hard about the future.
East elites are thinking about future.
Digital elites are thinking about the future.
West elites? We are not educating them yet…sitting on the fence of the past and future.
It isn't up to Trump's people to allow the redactions, they being done by civil servants following specific policies. I'm not optimistic enough to be pessimistic. All indicates are that Trump's people are under the control of the Deep State or actually are the Deep State. Makes me glad I didn't vote for the crooks.
They may not have to redact a thing--if the main testimony is only about sex, rather than implicating the main thing they want to cover up, which is the intel angle.
The only thing we are concerned with, now that Epstein is supposedly dead, is whose names are on the manifest of the Lolita Express or other documents.
Mark - the other person beyond Tucker's guest who seems to have a smart and well formed take is Benz, as he's been educated in the dark world of usaid dod cia ops for years and Benz asserts JE was the same fixer to those and other countries similar IC (deep state) as others we know of; have you seen his appearance w Viva?
If you can stomach Benz w Viva it seems certain to Benz that JE was in long game w his influence and likely wouldn't use blackmail as would essentially reveal the game and preclude his much more broad and high stakes endeavors. So maybe there isnt a true list bc he didnt make or keep tapes, it wasn't his primary means to influence.
It's great that the Russia hoax stuff is coming out and I hope Brennan, Comey et al pay the price for their sedition and possible treason. However, the timing of this is very suspicious. Maybe it is a big 4D chess move to catch 'em all, but it's also a great distraction for Trump from his Epstein woes.
From American Conservative.
The Trump Swamp
https://www.theamericanconservative.com/the-trump-swamp/
Good article. Steve Bannon: "“It’s not about just a pedophile ring...It’s about who governs us and that’s why Epstein’s not going away."
Absolutely.
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/curiosity-mounts-over-bannons-15-hours-epstein-interviews
Bannon has 16 hours of interviews with Epstein, which is is looking to turn in a documentary to be released in 2026.
‘Epstein is the key that picks the lock' of WHO REALLY CONTROLS the US — Bannon
As a retired atty., the analysis of Section 371 seems sound to me. And as an earlier commenter noted, the statute of limitations for fraud crimes are generally tolled until the time of their discovery, at as of the time they should reasonably have been discovered. Of course, judges are political animals. No judicial ruling is ever a foregone certainty.
Thanks. Tulsi's latest statement is that the intent was to "thwart the will of the American people." Sounds like a conspiracy to defraud to me. Of course I understand that the intent was a coup, since it came after the election, but "stage a coup through law- or intel-fare" doesn't appear in Title 18, and that sounds like fraud, too.
If Trump and Bondi don’t have the courage to tackle the Epstein matter, why would they go after Obama and Russiagate? These criminals will not be brought to justice.
Jeffrey who?
I’m not sure what Trumps doing re Epstein.
Is he worried about the Israeli connection being revealed?
Or the relationship he had with Epstein, two rich playboys in the same social circles in NYC and Florida?
Or is he worried about the damage Epstein’s information release will do to those Epstein interacted with?
Or is Trump drawing more media attention to Epstein to force information to be released?
Or is he afraid of anti Trump stuff salted in the Epstein files?
“treasonous conspiracy” is more about narrative building, than the actual charges doj will file. Naming Obama is huge.
Russiagate had foreign intel components, but I don’t believe that included Mossad. MI6 definitely, Australia, and Italy’s intel agencies were part of it.
they don't seem to realize that much of MAGA now considers Trump a greater enemy than Obama
Something I should repeat: Releasing GJ testimony is fine, but it's unlikely to advance investigation into the intel angle. Instead, it would probably deflect from that.
Danny Davis makes the point that this whole Epstein thing seems to have Trump really spooked.
Yes, the above cited Am Conservative article confirms that the DS has definitely got its talons into Trump.
Comey, Brennan , Clapper, Obama…
If you haven’t read it, check out:
“The Hammer is the Key to the Coup” – Mary Fanning and Alan Jones – published 2020
“On March 19, 2017, General McInerney and Admiral Lyons dropped The American Report’s exposé on The HAMMER, the illegal surveillance operation overseen by Obama, Brennan, and Clapper with which they spied on Americans and targeted their political adversaries.”
“The Hammer is the Key to the Coup” – Mary Fanning and Alan Jones
– published 2020
Description
“THE HAMMER is the Key to the Coup” is a summary of a multi-year investigation by national security journalists Mary Fanning and Alan Jones of The American Report into the supercomputer surveillance system known as THE HAMMER.
John Brennan, James Clapper and Barack Obama illegally commandeered the powerful foreign surveillance tool, THE HAMMER, in order to domestically spy on their political enemies.
CIA whistleblower and contractor Dennis Montgomery built THE HAMMER in 2003 to keep America safe after 9/11. Military sources unequivocally state that THE HAMMER worked. THE HAMMER also protected U.S. troops on the battlefield.
Montgomery became a whistleblower and handed over 47 computer hard drives of illegally-harvested surveillance data to the Department of Justice and the FBI under two limited immunity agreements in December of 2015.
FBI Director James Comey and FBI General Counsel James Baker, with DOJ Assistant U.S. Attorney Deborah Curtis, buried that proof of illegal surveillance rather than act upon it.
Whistleblower Montgomery states Barack Obama, John Brennan, and James Clapper used THE HAMMER to spy on Donald Trump and General Michael Flynn. Montgomery also asserts that Brennan and Clapper had Supreme Court Justices (including Chief Justice John Roberts) , FISA Court judges, 156 Article III judges, over one hundred Members of Congress, business leaders, journalists, law firms, U.S. military officers, and defense contractors under illegal surveillance.
The Deep State launched the Trump Russian collusion hoax investigation in order to cover up the Obama administration’s use of THE HAMMER illegal surveillance system that was transforming America into a Stasi-style police state.
When an admiral and a general presented The American Report’s investigation into THE HAMMER over America’s airwaves, a political tectonic shift began within hours. The very next day, FBI Director James Comey launched the Russian Collusion Investigation, placing none other than Deputy Assistant Director of the FBI Counterintelligence Division Peter Strzok in charge of that investigation.
“THE HAMMER is the Key to the Coup” pulls all of the clues into place, exposing what President Trump calls “The Political Crime of the Century”.
Cruiseship v. Tugboat
https://gcdnb.pbrd.co/images/h0u2iHiMy1XO.jpg?o=1
If the guilty are not punished, even slightly, then it will all get worse.
I think you're missing the enormity of the crime. If this conduct goes unpunished because of a legal technicality or inadequacy, then you are proactively undermining the very essence of what holds up together as a nation. And that is no trivial thing. The victim of letting this slide is the death of patriotism. No sane young man would, or should, volunteer to fight and risk death for the illusion of law and order. No sane citizen should place any faith or confidence in our system of governance. There is no longer any reason to trust anyone in public service, in any capacity, or for any reason. Societal trust dies in cowardice of our leaders and their duplicity. Those chickens will come home to roost sooner rather than later.
Krainer walks a tight-rope stretched over LaLa Land. But some arguments he offered for NOT releasing the "files" made sense:
- Keeping the possible names on the list quiet keeps those folks on edge, and unwilling to tangle with Trump. (Think, if Hitler had merely disclosed he had a list of people to eliminate rather than carry out Night of Long Knives.)
- If names are revealed, what will happen? There will be trials, prolonged debacles in which the guilty will most likely skate. Cf. Prince Andrew: he is still alive & free; Ms. Giuffre is dead.
- "The List" is ammunition. Its threat value is greater than its destruction value. Once it is fired, it is no longer a threat.
I disagree - I think the trust value regained by society in ‘the system’, and the deterrence value induced by adequate legal reckoning greatly overcompensates for loss of ‘threat value’.
Point taken.
In the Krainer conversation that's basis for my comment, the emphasis was on TRUMP, his survival and his consolidation of power; but not on the "good of society."
I'll have to read Mark's commentary on the Ryan Dawson interview more carefully. My overall impression of Dawson's research is that the pedophile element of l'Affair Epstein is actually lesser in the harm to society, though far more attention-grabbing. The larger purpose of the Epstein network was, it seems, an extensive spy- and nexus for covert/subversive operations not necessarily in the best interests of the American people and often against their interests, but using USA resources for the benefit of Israel.
If "society" comes to understand fully the extent to which USA has been used, and abused, for Israel's benefit, I'm not sure "trust value" will be regained any time soon.
I like the fraud angle, I’m not a lawyer, but generally fraud crimes toll when they are discovered and not when committed. These bastards can’t be allowed to skate on some statute of limitation escape.
Well stated.
The coming out of our new pedo-defender govt should do wonders for military recruitment.
I reposted you here:
https://x.com/DaveWatts474/status/1946666159362785346
"you're missing the enormity of the crime. If this conduct goes unpunished because of a legal technicality or inadequacy, then you are proactively undermining the very essence of what holds up together as a nation."
I'm not missing anything, and I don't regard the US Constitution--which defines treason, as I quote it--is a "legal technicality." Before you start tossing around vague talk about "the enormity of the crime" you damned well need to find a crime in Title 18 of the United States Code that fits the facts. If you don't the case will be tossed out of court.
You're asking a good question. Most people have overly simplistic notions of the events. The targets - Comey, Brennan, etc - are the opposite of fools. They know how to play the game. The approach that I would recommend would be to investigate it like a securities case. Here's what I mean by that: in a securities case, the investigators go through the disclosure documents with a fine tooth comb. Not just for what was said, but more usually for "material omissions". If you're going to get Comey or Brennan, it would have to be on "material omissions", rather than expecting a Dr Evil memo. I expect that there are serious material omissions in 2017 documents subsequent to the Danchenko revelations. The March 8, 2017 Talking Points memorandum definitely has serious material omissions and misrepresentations. As someone with detailed knowledge of the documents, I would urge almost total focus on 2017 documents as, by 2017, a great deal of exculpatory information had emerged. The fascination of most observers with summer 2016, things like Clinton Plan, is, IMO, a serious distraction away from the 2017 events which again IMO are far more likely to contain an example of misconduct. AG Barr is one of the few officials who clearly understood this. His statements upon receipt of Horowitz Report were precise and insightful.
Let me try saying it differently. If the crime is serious enough that it genuinely threatens the viability of our national cohesion and social trust compact, you must take action, by whatever means necessary, to preserve the country. Should the legal system fail us, our duty is step-up nonetheless. That is what our forefathers did in the American Revolution, and our duty is no less. I would argue that those are the stakes given the circumstances evident in the Russia Hoax Conspiracy.
I don't disagree with that, but I'd argue prosecuting people for conspiring to defraud We the People of our constitutional order would not be a failure of the legal system. I'd call it a triumph for the rule of law.
Honest question. Is refusal to prosecute (when justified) a violation of the rule of law? Or said differently, is what Bondi did a violation of ethics or a subversion of the rule of law?
Honest answer. Yes.
Inadequate. Seditious conspiracy sounds closer to the truth to me.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2384
Very tough to prove on the facts.
You're probably right that publicly known facts are insufficient at present, but the thread of an investigation focusing on the Russia hoax, impeachments and subsequent election fraud to install the cabbage puppet may develop what's needed. We have to start somewhere and you're suggestion may be the way to go. Let's get on with it.
I really get upset with people who don't bother reading the relevant criminal statutes and take a bit of time trying to apply them to the known facts. "Conspiracy to defraud" may not sound as sexy as Treason or Sedition, but the prosecutors get to describe exactly what the fraud involved and who the victims were--We the People.
Older, sadder, mellower, and hopefully, wiser since 2019, color me skeptical that much happens.
You mention Missouri in your post, which I infer, as a Show-Me State resident, to mean show me.
Whatever crime it is, it's pretty fundamental to our whole government and just shows how far We the People have wandered from our love of God, the truth and the rule of law.
"shows how far We the People have wandered from our love of God"
That's the heart of it. Without that there's no truth or law.
What does Epstein coming out now “reveal?” The way the West Was Won ;) in the Television Paradigm. We don’t live there anymore: fantasy world about humans.
Bigger picture? How about lack of elites/leadership in the West? How far back? At least decades, say 1970.
A challenge to us today: Digital is going to force pull the threads. There is no ability to stop it at this point. Is the US/West ready for this Apocalypse Now! time? Not a chance. Gabi doing her own “reveal” does not deflect, as they are part of the same group of narratives we all grew up on.
Digital tech is ubiquitous and forms everyone in the world now (think about a 2nd grader today in the US and how they function in this environment).
Digital is “unconcealing” our prior Television paradigm narratives. Destroying. Rubble.
Lack of West elites to deal with it or to think hard about the future.
East elites are thinking about future.
Digital elites are thinking about the future.
West elites? We are not educating them yet…sitting on the fence of the past and future.
Thanks for the posts Mark.
That sounds like a winning play. They certainly impaired, obstructed and temporarily defeated the lawful function of the government.
Maybe, just maybe, Trump is playing some 42nd dimension super chess. I'll believe it if we see it.
Trump has been usurped by the Deep State, which is why he wanted to bury the Epstein files.
The evidence held by the FBI would surely be censored or altered to help them. It wouldn't be trustworthy.
Releasing the Grand Jury stuff is a stake in the heart to the Deep State.
They would never have touched any of that because it was meant to be under seal forever.
The Deep State allowed the release because they will redact it into worthlessness.
The grand jury stuff has been sealed and is untouched. If Trump's people allow redactions then we know its all over. You sound as pessimistic as me.
How was it sealed without being touched?
It isn't up to Trump's people to allow the redactions, they being done by civil servants following specific policies. I'm not optimistic enough to be pessimistic. All indicates are that Trump's people are under the control of the Deep State or actually are the Deep State. Makes me glad I didn't vote for the crooks.
They may not have to redact a thing--if the main testimony is only about sex, rather than implicating the main thing they want to cover up, which is the intel angle.
The only thing we are concerned with, now that Epstein is supposedly dead, is whose names are on the manifest of the Lolita Express or other documents.
Nope. That's important but the key element is to what extent these people were being blackmailed and what the effects of that blackmailing were.
What else would it take to make someone blackmailable but having their names in the documents that Trump is trying to have us ignore?
Mark - the other person beyond Tucker's guest who seems to have a smart and well formed take is Benz, as he's been educated in the dark world of usaid dod cia ops for years and Benz asserts JE was the same fixer to those and other countries similar IC (deep state) as others we know of; have you seen his appearance w Viva?
Tucker seems to be taking the same stupidity-inducing drugs that Trump is.
I'm not necessarily a Benz fan--he's a mixed bag, IMO--but I'm listening to Tucker and Darryl Cooper and Cooper mentioned that Benz has some new info.
If you can stomach Benz w Viva it seems certain to Benz that JE was in long game w his influence and likely wouldn't use blackmail as would essentially reveal the game and preclude his much more broad and high stakes endeavors. So maybe there isnt a true list bc he didnt make or keep tapes, it wasn't his primary means to influence.