LJ: Poles, Catholics, Jews, Russians ...

In the midst of a typically interesting conversation with Nima, Larry Johnson interjected 5 minutes of anti-Polish, anti-Catholic, disinformation. I can only assume that LJ had, at some point, spoken to a moron and took the moron’s views—whoever the moron was—for gospel. But, when propagating views on sensitive topics like ethnicity and religion it’s highly advisable to do a bit of independent research. I’ll try to set the record straight in an even handed way, although the topics involved would require a major book to do anything like full justice to them:

Netanyahu's Desperate Gamble: Is He Leading Israel to Disaster?

Here’s a transcript of the 5 minutes in question:

[18:18]

Nima: Larry, what's interesting about the US envoy [Amos Hochstein], he, he's a Jewish, American Jewish, immigrant to Israel and a child--he is the child of American Jewish immigrant to Israel. He served in the Israeli Defense Forces prior to moving to Washington. And why they're using, this Administration is using, these people who are connected to Israel? It would be better to use some other people who are not that much connected with Israel to show some sort of respect for the governments there.

LJ: Well he's not just connected to Israel, he's an Israeli! You know, he's a Zionist. He's not some, I don't view him as an American. He can show the passport but, when push comes to shove, who goes first: America or Israel? Israel's first for him, which is, you know, that's his choice. But, you know, don't dress up and pretend to be an American when, in fact, the thing you're primarily serving is the Zionist interests of Israel at present.

Nima: Yeah, I think the Blinken's people, the Biden Administration with the State Department, Blinken and his people, are totally clueless when it comes to Ukraine, when they are connected to Ukraine. Whatever they do everybody knows what is their main goal. Right now in the Middle East they're connected to Netanyahu and the people in in the Netanyahu Administration. It's unbelievable how the Biden Administration is dominated with these people.

LJ: Yeah, I mean it's, what we're looking at is, I mean, it really is a Jewish problem. And I'm not trying to indict all Jews and all of Judaism but, come on! People like Blinken, like the Nulands, with respect to Ukraine, are, are the descendants, uh, of Jews who immigrated from, primarily from, Ukraine, not when it was under the control of, uh, they come from Ukraine. They blame Russia for the persecution, but a lot of the persecution of the Jews originated out of what we now know as Western Ukraine, where the heavy Catholic influence. Uh, the Russian Orthodox Church was not nearly as brutal as the Catholic Church was with respect to Jews. But, you know, they, they've got a grievance against Russia, um, and there's, you know, the, the sort of revolutionary fervor smacks of, uh, the views of Leon Trotsky. In the Trotskyist view--again, Trotsky was a, was a, was a radicalized Jew, but not a practitioner of Judaism--he was more bent on worldwide revolution and promoting that. So, and then, then you get them, we get involved with, we got to go to fight [for?] Israel. I mean, it's, you know, you're not seeing the, this isn't happening with the Han Chinese or, uh, the Sindhis in India, or Scotch Irish or, you know, Guatemalans. You know, this is, we get all wrapped up with these, I'll call them Jewish grievances that, uh, spring out of, you know, the fact that the pogroms that took place in Ukraine back in the day. Look at most, almost all, of the early Jewish leaders came out of either Poland or what we now know as Ukraine--Yitzhak Shamir, uh, Golda Meir, uh, one, uh, so Menachem Begin. They all came out of either Poland or Ukraine, you know, from a Russian territory. Uh, they weren't, they weren't born, it was only Rabin was, uh, born in Israel and was a native. Everybody else were imports and so they bring them with them that cultural baggage, that cultural heritage, and they pass it on to their kids. It's sort of, it's sort of just, it's human nature.

[23:21]

Let me parse this passage in particular.

They blame Russia for the persecution, but a lot of the persecution of the Jews originated out of what we now know as Western Ukraine, where the heavy Catholic influence. Uh, the Russian Orthodox Church was not nearly as brutal as the Catholic Church was with respect to Jews.

First, why were there so many Jews in Poland? Because Poland was the most welcoming country for Jews in Europe from the Middle Ages on. Jews were never expelled from Poland, as they were from Western European countries—or subjected to internal expulsions as occurred in the Russian Empire (see below). To the contrary, Jews were encouraged to settle in Poland.

Second, did the “heavy Catholic influence” in Western Ukraine cause the famous pogroms? It’s necessary to understand that the “Catholic” status of Eastern Galicia was due to the Union of Brest. The union (of Latin and Orthodox) did not change religious practice—the Ukrainian “uniate” Catholics are, in all externals such as liturgy, calendar, general culture, etc., indistinguishable from the Orthodox—and was not accepted anywhere except in areas under Polish control. It simply meant that some Ukrainian Orthodox bishops accepted the Pope as head of the Church. Importantly, the Cossacks, avatars of modern Ukrainian nationalism, did not accept the union—the Cossacks retained their ecclesiastical allegiance to the Orthodox Church.

Third, why are the Cossacks important in this? Because the famous pogroms originated with the Cossack war against the Polish kingdom, in the 17th century. This had nothing to do with the Catholic religion and everything to do with the Cossack desire for independence from the Polish (and Ukrainian) nobles. The areas of Ukraine controlled by Poland at that time were dominated by great noble families who held vast estates and kept private armies (the Polish king was notoriously weak). The nobles typically hired Jews to manage those estates. That meant that the Jews became the face of oppression for the serfs. The Cossacks—who were Orthodox—when they swept north from the southern steppes targeted both Jews and Poles.

Fourth, where did the other major pogroms take place in the pre-world war era? By far the most famous 19th century pogrom took place in Odessa, which had never been a Polish or a Catholic city. Yes, in the aftermath of WW1 and during WW2 Western Ukraine (Eastern Galicia) became hotbeds of anti-Semitism.

Fifth, is it true that Jews were ill treated in Poland but well treated in Russia? No. In fact, there’s a reason why so many American and Israeli Jews come from the modern Ukraine—Meir was born in Kiev, Trotsky in Odessa. When Russia conquered most of Poland in the late 18th century Russia inherited almost all of Poland’s large Jewish population. The first thing the Russians did was to set up the so-called Pale of Settlement—in other words, Jews were forbidden to resettle from the former Polish lands and move into Russia, proper. This soon became a major grievance for Jews who wanted to move from the backwaters of Ukraine to the emerging industrial cities of Russia, such as Moscow, St. Petersburg, the Donbas cities, etc.

Sixth, the Russian Empire passed many laws that Jews resented—restrictions on Jewish life that had never applied in Poland. The title of this section from refers to how the formerly Polish Jews were treated once they became subjects of the Russian Empire:

Jews of Poland within the Russian Empire (1795–1918)

Official Russian policy would eventually prove to be substantially harsher to the Jews than that under independent Polish rule. The lands that had once been Poland were to remain the home of many Jews, as, in 1772, Catherine II, the Tzarina of Russia, instituted the Pale of Settlement, restricting Jews to the western parts of the empire, which would eventually include much of Poland, although it excluded some areas in which Jews had previously lived. By the late 19th century, over four million Jews would live in the Pale.

Tsarist policy towards the Jews of Poland alternated between harsh rules, and inducements meant to break the resistance to large-scale conversion. In 1804, Alexander I of Russia issued a "Statute Concerning Jews",[76] meant to accelerate the process of assimilation of the Empire's new Jewish population. The Polish Jews were allowed to establish schools with Russian, German or Polish curricula. However, they were also restricted from leasing property, teaching in Yiddish, and from entering Russia. They were banned from the brewing industry. The harshest measures designed to compel Jews to merge into society at large called for their expulsion from small villages, forcing them to move into towns. Once the resettlement began, thousands of Jews lost their only source of income and turned to Qahal for support. Their living conditions in the Pale began to dramatically worsen.[76]

During the reign of Tsar Nicolas I, known by the Jews as "Haman the Second", hundreds of new anti-Jewish measures were enacted.[77] The 1827 decree by Nicolas – while lifting the traditional double taxation on Jews in lieu of army service – made Jews subject to general military recruitment laws that required Jewish communities to provide 7 recruits per each 1000 "souls" every 4 years. Unlike the general population that had to provide recruits between the ages of 18 and 35, Jews had to provide recruits between the ages of 12 and 25, at the qahal's discretion. Thus between 1827 and 1857 over 30,000 children were placed in the so-called Cantonist schools, where they were pressured to convert.[78] "Many children were smuggled to Poland, where the conscription of Jews [i.e., into the Russian army—rump Poland had a quasi-autonomous status up to that point] did not take effect until 1844."[77]

I’d like to quote at length from the Wikipedia section on Jewish life in Poland during the years between 1919 and 1939, but it’s rather lengthy: Interbellum (1918–39). The picture that emerges is of a vibrant and thriving Jewish community, free to practice and develop their various communal and cultural lives. However, two brief passages address reasons for tensions with Poles as well as accusations of “pogroms”.

First, Józef Piłsudski, the founder of the newly independent Poland, was a popular figure among many Jews, even though most Jews weren’t enamored with the idea of an independent Poland:

While most Polish Jews were neutral to the idea of a Polish state,[85] many played a significant role in the fight for Poland's independence during World War I; around 650 Jews joined the Legiony Polskie formed by Józef Piłsudski, more than all other minorities combined.[86] Prominent Jews were among the members of KTSSN, the nucleus of the interim government of re-emerging sovereign Poland including Herman Feldstein, Henryk Eile, Porucznik Samuel Herschthal, Dr. Zygmunt Leser, Henryk Orlean, Wiktor Chajes and others.

Indeed, there were also many Jews who were actively hostile to the idea of an independent Poland, and weren’t bashful about making their feelings known:

A Jewish organization during the war that was opposed to Polish aspirations was the Komitee für den Osten (Kfdo)(Committee for the East) founded by German Jewish activists, which promoted the idea of Jews in the east becoming "spearhead of German expansionism" serving as "Germany's reliable vassals" against other ethnic groups in the region[87] and serving as "living wall against Poles separatists aims".

Further, most Jews in Poland refused to learn Polish—since Jews operated their own schools and typically comprised 25-30% of the population of major cities, this was feasible:

Most children were enrolled in Jewish religious schools, which used to limit their ability to speak Polish. As a result, according to the 1931 census, 79% of the Jews declared Yiddish as their first language, and only 12% listed Polish, with the remaining 9% being Hebrew.[109] In contrast, the overwhelming majority of German-born Jews of this period spoke German as their first language. During the school year of 1937–1938 there were 226 elementary schools [110] and twelve high schools as well as fourteen vocational schools with either Yiddish or Hebrew as the instructional language.

As for the pogroms—since LJ talks that up—I will quote at length. However, note that just as widespread Jewish preference for Germany led to hard feelings with Poles, the perception of Jewish affinity for Bolshevism also fueled tensions—Germany and the USSR were the major threats to the new Polish republic:

In the aftermath of the Great War localized conflicts engulfed Eastern Europe between 1917 and 1919. Many attacks were launched against Jews during the Russian Civil War, the Polish–Ukrainian War, and the Polish–Soviet War ending with the Treaty of Riga. Just after the end of World War I, the West became alarmed by reports about alleged massive pogroms in Poland against Jews. Pressure for government action reached the point where U.S. President Woodrow Wilson sent an official commission to investigate the matter. The commission, led by Henry Morgenthau, Sr., concluded in its Morgenthau Report that allegations of pogroms were exaggerated.^[89] It identified eight incidents in the years 1918–1919 out of 37 mostly empty claims for damages, and estimated the number of victims at 280. Four of these were attributed to the actions of deserters and undisciplined individual soldiers; none was blamed on official government policy. Among the incidents, during the battle for Pińsk a commander of Polish infantry regiment accused a group of Jewish men of plotting against the Poles and ordered the execution of thirty-five Jewish men and youth.^[90] The Morgenthau Report found the charge to be "devoid of foundation" even though their meeting was illegal to the extent of being treasonable.^[91] In the Lwów (Lviv) pogrom, which occurred in 1918 during the Polish–Ukrainian War of independence a day after the Poles captured Lviv from the Sich Riflemen – the report concluded – 64 Jews had been killed (other accounts put the number at 72).^[92][93] In Warsaw, soldiers of Blue Army assaulted Jews in the streets, but were punished by military authorities. Many other events in Poland were later found to have been exaggerated, especially by contemporary newspapers such as The New York Times, although serious abuses against the Jews, including pogroms, continued elsewhere, especially in Ukraine.^[94]

Regarding that last bit, about pogroms in Ukraine, the Red Army Cossack Cavalry, the Konarmia, was notorious for its killing of Jews, as recounted by Isaac Babel.

I trust that regular readers will understand that, while I do feel called upon to correct common misinformation about Polish history, I am far from being a knee jerk defender of all things Polish. And the same goes for Russia—I’m not a defender of all things Russian, even though I regard the Russian SMO in Ukraine as justified. That view is based on realist considerations and on justice. Most specifically, just because I have identified the Jewish grievances against Russia based in history dating back to the 18th century, that doesn’t mean that I think the Neocon’s use of America for their current jihad against Russia is justified. Nor do I consider the Soviet refusal to allow wide open emigration of Jews from the USSR to Israel and the US to be justification for using American might for revenge against Russia. In that last regard, it’s worth noting that Soviet Jews were used cynically by the Zionist movement in an effort to greatly expand the Jewish population of Israel over against the native Arab population. Ironically, something like two thirds of Soviet Jews chose to emigrate to the West, rather than to Israel. As I recall, when I worked Russian matters in New York, there was an entire squad that did nothing but investigate Russian Jewish emigres.

I’ll wrap this up with a few extra links. The first is a link to a breakdown by country for the Righteous Among the Nations, maintained at Yad Vashem. What you’ll find at that link is that Poles—a nation often associated with anti-Semitism, and subjected to perhaps the most brutal Nazi occupation during the war—easily outstrips all other nations on the list. Next, check out the links here:

More on Jews, Poles and peasants

A couple of weeks back I did a post on the fact that by and large my ancestors in eastern Europe were not peasants. Here’s a historical paper that explores some of the same terrain, titled "Traditional Jewish Attitudes Toward Poles," by Mark Paul, from a Polish-American perspective. I haven’t read it yet; it is booklength. But it goes into a lot of the casual smearing of Poles among Jews that I grew up with–and that MJ Rosenberg once explained to me was the backdrop to some of the anger toward Zbig Brzezinski. I see that the paper refers to jokes about Polocks told by the late Ann Landers (Eppie Lederer) and Senator Arlen Specter.